r/worldnews Nov 29 '22 Silver 1 Helpful 1 Wholesome 3 Take My Energy 2 Heartwarming 1 Vibing 2 To The Stars 1

Finland offers to train Ukraine soldiers in winter warfare against Russia Russia/Ukraine

https://www.newsweek.com/finland-nato-niinisto-helsinki-training-weapons-ukraine-soldiers-1763166
83.2k Upvotes

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u/sirshitsalot69 Nov 29 '22

We are about to see a record number of saunas in the tenches

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

[deleted]

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u/sultttaani Nov 29 '22

I was so proud when i first saw that

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u/vulcanxnoob Nov 29 '22

That is an offer you never turn down. If there's any motherfuckers that know how to fight in snow, it's the Finnish.

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u/handyandy727 Nov 29 '22

Finland and Norway. You do not fuck with them at any time really. You will 100% get decimated in winter.

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u/Aoae Nov 29 '22

The Nazis took only two months to complete the occupation of Norway. However, this was from April to June. I wonder how long it would have taken in the winter instead?

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u/Belphegorandhisprime Nov 30 '22 edited Nov 30 '22 Awesome Answer

Here's the interesting part; Norway at the time had declared themselves neutral after WW1, and had built down their armed forces to a very very reduced neutrality guard. And those 2 months? Thats longer....A LOT longer than any country had resisted the German invasions at the time. It took longer to occupy Norway than it did to occupy Poland and France. Both fairly large military forces at the time. There's also a discepancy in loss numbers. The Germans notoriously underreported losses. My own grandmother comes from a small rural township, where the history books reports from the German's own loss reports; 7 casualties. In reality the Norwegians made a local stand there and was fighting house to house, forcing the Germans to burn them out. And the locals observed the germans taking casualties in the high 2-digits, then throwing their own casualties into remaining houses and lighting them up. Her brother was commandeered by the Germans to drive his truck with casualties to the fires. He made at least 4 runs with the back of his truck stacked to the roof with dead soldiers.

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u/Aoae Nov 30 '22

That's a really interesting story, thanks for sharing.

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u/pthsim Nov 30 '22

Also, the Germans had 300.000 troops in Norway. Festung Norwegen

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u/Belphegorandhisprime Nov 30 '22

That was mostly toward the end of the war. Norway was fortified extensively as the allied invasion was initially expected there

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u/krulp Nov 30 '22

Hard to mobilize through areas with 1 road that's barely even a road.

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u/GuyDarras Nov 30 '22

It's worth noting in the interest of full information that France and Britain both sent expeditionary forces into Norway to help defend against the Nazi invasion. That's not to detract from the bravery and fighting the Norwegians did, including sinking one of Nazi Germany's most advanced cruisers with 40-year-old pre-WWI era torpedos.

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u/WikiSummarizerBot Nov 30 '22

Battle of Drøbak Sound

The Battle of Drøbak Sound took place in Drøbak Sound, the northernmost part of the outer Oslofjord in southern Norway, on 9 April 1940. It marked the end of the "Phoney War" and the beginning of World War II in Western Europe. A German fleet led by the cruiser Blücher was dispatched up the Oslofjord to begin the German invasion of Norway, with the objective of seizing the Norwegian capital of Oslo and capturing King Haakon VII and his government. The fleet was engaged in the fjord by Oscarsborg Fortress, an aging coastal installation near Drøbak, that had been relegated to training coastal artillery servicemen, leading the Germans to disregard its defensive value.

[ F.A.Q | Opt Out | Opt Out Of Subreddit | GitHub ] Downvote to remove | v1.5

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u/cleeder Nov 29 '22

I wonder how long it would have taken in the winter instead?

Probably until June.

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u/A-Good-Weather-Man Nov 29 '22

Remember, only iron sights

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

And eat some snow when aiming, so the enemy can't see you breathing in the cold. Simo Häyhä's tricks.

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u/SirSukkaAlot Nov 29 '22 Wholesome Seal of Approval

And meow to bring false sense of comfort

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u/IndieComic-Man Nov 29 '22

“I’m going to need you to stop invading right meow.”

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u/Umutuku Nov 30 '22

"We can't abandon the T-80 any farther!"

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u/DogsAreGreattt Nov 29 '22

God, that is so cool.

Humans are mad smart and adaptable when they’re backed into a corner.

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u/Letmefixthatforyouyo Nov 29 '22

He was the corner.

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u/newpua_bie Nov 29 '22

No, you clearly don't know who you're talking to, so let me clue you in. I am not in corner. I am the corner.

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u/melancholanie Nov 30 '22

I AM THE ONE WHO CORNER

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u/mjt1105 Nov 30 '22

You don’t understand, I am not in the corner. The corner is in here with me.

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u/2mustange Nov 29 '22

Sounds like a comment made by a non-human

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u/Haxorz7125 Nov 29 '22

I recall an old tumblr post about how scary humans would be in warfare with an alien. Stitching limbs back on and regenerating, camouflaging with surroundings, shit like that.

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u/cosine_error Nov 29 '22

Deathworlders.com

Similar to that whole writing prompt about humans being scary to aliens. A good read, it's long though.

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u/letsyabbadabbadothis Nov 29 '22

I find it hard to believe that any of our puny monkey brain tricks would be “scary” to any member of a cosmos-hopping civilization. ETA: that’s a cool thought though.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22 edited Dec 03 '22

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u/Brickzealand Nov 29 '22

You'd be surprised but 98% of them are using and doing live fire training with only iron sights. If you want a red dot or a scope you have to buy it, get it from the volunteers.

Source: Am former UAF soldier/used to train them with British army in Ukraine/UK

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u/jicty Nov 29 '22

You aren't wrong but I think you missed the reference. It's a reference to Simo Hayha, the Finnish sniper that killed more Russian soldiers than any one soldier in history. He was a sniper that refused to use a scope to because he thought it would give his position away due to the reflection and he still got around 500 confirmed kills between a sniper rifle with no scope and a sub machine gun. He also would chew on snow so the steam from his breath wouldn't give his position away. He is a hell of a guy and an interesting historical figure to look into.

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u/Brickzealand Nov 29 '22

Simo

Yeah I know what was the reference, Simo would be proud.

However, the use of the iron sights is prelevant because there is no other choice. I would personally not like to use iron sights.

Also most of the casualties are from the arty which is very sad, we have had people that we trained in July already POWs or KIA. Which makes me even more devasteted.

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u/chippychipper444 Nov 29 '22

Good to add that the president spend the night in tent with common soldiers on the exercise newsweek is refering.

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u/Herecomestherain_ Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

I checked the Finish article and you're right, nice morale booster.

The President of the Republic spent the night in a semi-team tent in North Karelia in Nurmes.

typo : Corrected Nurmes :)

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u/SprawlWino Nov 29 '22

6 million Finns smile as an 80-year old cycle begins again and an old plan comes to fruition

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u/Pekonius Nov 29 '22

Suur-Muumi phase 2 begins.

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u/Brilliant-Pebbles Nov 30 '22

Suomi 2: Electric Moomiloo

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u/professorbrainiac Nov 29 '22 Silver Gold Helpful Take My Energy Starry Baby Snoo

Everybody gangsta until the snow starts speaking Finnish

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u/ValyrianJedi Nov 29 '22

Finland is on a whole different level when it comes to handling the cold... I worked for a finance firm for a while that specialized in commercial real estate and somehow became the in house expert on well below freezing development... Generally things would take literally twice as long to complete when dealing with kill you in 5 minutes levels of cold, but we had a project going that we were funding in the arctic circle of Finland that was somehow going as fast or faster than a normal project would. I got sent to check it out and they had what amounted to a small city of wind resistant heated plastic tunnels, and were setting up their operation in underground dugouts connected by them. It was like nothing I'd ever seen before... Ended up getting two of them to consult with other developers who were working in Alaska like a year later and it was a gamechanger for them

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u/Girth_rulez Nov 29 '22

This is amazing. I worked above the Arctic circle in Alaska and can verify that the cold is biblical.

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u/ValyrianJedi Nov 29 '22

You definitely have my respect! Whenever I had to go to sites it was for just a few days to maybe a week tops and then I got to head back home. The fact that that was "home" to you guys was always somewhere between impressive and unbelievable to me ha

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u/Weird-Vagina-Beard Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

Edit: misinterpreted your comment, it makes sense now.

I work in construction. How do they do excavating there? I imagine digging through solid ice to pour a foundation would be very difficult but I've never tried.

Do they typically just accept the ground as stable/compacted enough and build on top of whatever is there? And how do they pour and work concrete?

I imagine it's infinitely different than anything I've ever seen, really fascinating though.

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u/ValyrianJedi Nov 29 '22

The foundation can vary a good bit. If you're building on permafrost it's a whole different set of rules. They will build on it, but if you do you have to take measures to be sure it stays frozen, like being sure heat from the building doesn't seep in to it.

Concrete is rough... You have to have a facility for it put up nearby. Warm and keep warm the water and aggregate constantly. Use insanely insulated drums to transport it. Have insane amounts of insulation in the pump lines. Then you have to build a temporary enclosure around where you are pouring it and bring in a dozen or two industrial heaters. To keep a large pours enclosure heated you need 20+ of the things, each going through 3-5 gallons of deisel an hour, so are literally burning thousands of gallons of fuel a day in some instances to do it.

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u/Weird-Vagina-Beard Nov 29 '22

Holy smokes, sounds extremely expensive. Thanks for that.

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u/DVariant Nov 30 '22

I’m a different commenter, but super cold weather concrete construction is also very HOT surprisingly. When it’s so cold outside, you’ve got a ton of insulation around everything which is fine… but once the concrete starts to set it gives off an insane amount of heat (normal for concrete; the bigger the pour, the more heat it gives off) except that now you’re in a heavily insulated room wearing heavy winter gear AND you’re likely sweating tons from the physical work too. So you end up being hot af inside the hoarding, but as soon as you leave you’re now soggy and freezing.

Taking layers off is the only way to stay bearable, but it’s never comfortable.

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u/Weird-Vagina-Beard Nov 30 '22

Never would have thought of that. Around concrete all the time but never cold and insulated so never knew it put out noticeable heat. Really interesting. Got something interesting to say now lol.

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u/cyon_me Nov 30 '22

That's a fun chemistry thing called lattice energy. Liquids can hold more energy than solids because they're moving around. When something becomes solid the energy that it had before doesn't have anywhere to go but out, so it can result in insane heating. If you get your nails done you can notice this, it's wild. The also means that if you cool something down then it will become solid faster.

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u/willirritate Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

Concrete laying in winter is really challenging but we got the expertise up here. I'm not expert but I've been to some sites way back. Below +5c you have take some special considerations; formwork can't be frozen, if it is its usually thawed with hot water vapor(steam). Extra insulation(mineral wool), using concrete that stiffens more quickly or harder concrete. Sometimes the concrete mass is preheated. You have to cover the freshly poured stuff. You have to work quickly and precisely. Sometimes you see special heating iron in the socle. Dataloggers are widely used so you can monitor the temps. Excavation isn't that hard though, machines get easily damaged because frozen iron breaks easily and all the engine, tracks and hydraulic etc parts don't really dig digging in the frigging winter. There are special tools for work machines, a hook and a of sort of hammer to dig through frozen ground. Sometimes they just use explosives. There is one good upside and it's that frozen ground is good for the mobility because work machines don't get bogged down. Overall it's tricky but doable and we Finns fight winter like Dutch fight the sea, with passionate engineering and skillful crews.

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u/Weird-Vagina-Beard Nov 29 '22

That was really informative, thank you.

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u/PortlandCanna Nov 29 '22

-40f is unreal to be in, I saw -70f wind-chill and it's really hard to comprehend just how cold that shit is until you're there

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u/meno123 Nov 29 '22

It's really hard to comprehend even when you're standing in it, to be fair. The only way I can properly describe -40 to -50 vs something like -20 to -30 is I had a candy in my mouth when I left my house and I realized I had lost my sense of taste after walking for about 5 minutes.

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u/iamadventurous Nov 29 '22

Ever grab a piece of steel thats been sitting outside in -40 weather? It feels the same as if its burning hot. Its crazy.

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u/ScowlEasy Nov 29 '22

After a certain point you don’t feel the cold anymore and it’s just pain

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u/MyCatIsUgly6 Nov 29 '22

You’re not making me miss where I grew up (Canadian prairies, it would get to -40 one or two times a year).

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u/TheBunkerKing Nov 29 '22

I'm from above the Finnish Arctic circle, and I've got to say the game is rigged. Little bit: the Gulf stream means most parts of Finnish Lapland don't get nearly as cold as arctic inland areas like parts of Alaska or Russia are.

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u/pingveno Nov 29 '22

And if the mid Atlantic drift ever slows down, Europe is fuuuuuucccckkkked.

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u/A-Tie Nov 29 '22

BF 2142 here we gooo

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u/melmoth_to_a_flame Nov 29 '22

Oh (dice) please, reality is glitching enough, I don't need to be getting stuck on every little curb or blade of grass.

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u/Nai-Oxi-Isos-DenXero Nov 29 '22

And if When the mid Atlantic drift ever slows down, Europe is fuuuuuucccckkkked.

FTFY.

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u/CopsaLau Nov 29 '22

Grew up in the Arctic Circle in Canada and even I’m impressed by the Finns. They are innovative in ways we don’t seem to imagine, our method is just “bitterly endure” like a bunch of dumb apes. Finland could probably single-handedly terraform the moon.

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u/john_wb Nov 29 '22

I've worked on mining projects in the far North, above the arctic circle in winter. Everything keeps going with temperatures in the minus 50's. It's amazing to see it. Funny thing is that you never actually feel cold there because everything is heated and insulated. But it's so dry .. your skin feels parched and you get a shock every time you touch metal from the static.

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u/RaisingSaltLamps Nov 29 '22

Even when I lived in northern Saskatchewan I could literally feel summer leaving my skin, it would get obscenely dry almost overnight when “fall” hit. -40 and being hours away from extensive civilization was surprisingly nice though, for the first few months lol. I’m happy to be back in my -20 and above!

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u/BAbeast1993 Nov 29 '22

How far north? I spent some time near Uranium City and the thing that took the most adjustment for me was the 20 hours straight of either light or dark depending on the season. So much time for daytime activities during summer though!

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u/RaisingSaltLamps Nov 30 '22

I was based out of La Ronge and worked in smaller communities north of that as a CPS worker. Never went quite as high up as UC but the weather is still wild even in La Ronge. Hell, even in Saskatoon it’s bonkers it can fluctuate between -40 and +40. The worst part is definitely the darkness, and the longevity I’d say- like, I love seasons, I’d never want to live somewhere like Miami. But winter being more than 5 months gets old real fast!

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u/Mightbeagoat Nov 29 '22

Hell, this happens to me in Colorado lol. The worst part is the cracked finger tips!

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u/Zodde Nov 29 '22

Or smiling and feeling your lips cracking at like 15 different places at once. Some new, some old barely healed cracks. Cold dry weather really is something else haha

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u/potato11teen Nov 29 '22

Time really must be money if it's cheaper to build so much temporary infrastructure to get done faster.

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u/atomsk404 Nov 29 '22

Exposed materials get ruined also

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u/PotatoSalad Nov 29 '22

Exposed humans get ruined as well

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u/qpv Nov 29 '22

That usually is true, but also a lot of temporary infastructure is easier to build in sub zero temperatures

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u/Captain_Sacktap Nov 29 '22

Plus you’ve got to figure a solid percentage of the materials used as part of the temporary infrastructure can likely be re-used once the project is completed and they break down the work site.

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u/irkthejerk Nov 29 '22

There's a huge difference between -20 and -75

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u/AJ-Taylor Nov 29 '22

Just picturing a bunch of snow forts connected by tunnels.

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u/DullApplication3275 Nov 29 '22

Worker morale drops at the same rate as the temperature. Not to mention working with layers and layers of clothing on makes every movement slower.

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u/PatHeist Nov 29 '22

Working with excessive clothing or while cold is also significantly less safe.

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u/alexanderpas Nov 29 '22

And that's the key solution here.

The US has worse worker protections than Finland.

The US essentially just requires extra PPE when working in those conditions, while other countries actually require any reasonable attempt to remove or reduce the hazardous condition, with extra PPE being a last resort, which results in much safer working conditions.

And because you have reduced the hazard, that also benefits your designs and materials, because you don't need to overengineer them as much.

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u/ValyrianJedi Nov 29 '22

It's not really so much that they had temporary infrastructure as it is how they went about handling it... You're going to spend a lot of money building in an area like that one way or another. It's so cold that the moisture on your eyeballs starts trying to freeze as soon as you step outside, and if you spit it starts freezing almost immediately where it can make an icicle from your mouth... So they have to find a way to keep their workers warm, which isn't cheap. Then the building/existing work/materials can also be half ruined by a single really bad day if you aren't careful...

So I think it was mostly that while most other people try to over-engineer solutions they were pairing some modern technology with super old-school streamlined ways of doing things that ended up working 10x better.

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u/Poes-Lawyer Nov 29 '22

Can confirm the ridiculous cold in Finland. I remember as a kid going out when it reached -35C even in our southern town. I fell over and twisted my ankle, and being a little kid, I started to cry. But my dad rushed over and said "don't cry, your tears will freeze." Well thanks, that made me feel better!

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u/snappyusername223 Nov 29 '22

'Suck it up, or your eyes will burst. Love you x'

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u/LostInTheWildPlace Nov 29 '22

This is one of the core elements of Finnish culture. When even Mother Nature is telling you it won't work, the Finns say "we'll see about that".

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u/MarketingFilms Nov 29 '22

It's so cold that the moisture on your eyeballs starts trying to freeze as soon as you step outside

Almost freezing my eyeball to camera viewfinder was not a fun experience.

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u/potato11teen Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

So other contractors were on budget (more or less) but behind from over engineering.

Funny, I just got out of a work demonstration and one of the questions for the project lead was lessons she learned. Her first answer was understanding "good enough" and resisting over engineering.

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u/MadConfusedApe Nov 29 '22

One of my favorite clients has a saying at their engineering firm: engineering is the art of 'good enough'

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u/ramses0 Nov 29 '22

“Any idiot can build a bridge, it takes an engineer to build a bridge that just barely doesn’t fall down.”

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u/powerfulowl Nov 29 '22

The old 'perfection is the enemy of good.'

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u/Inkthinker Nov 29 '22

Beat me to it. Although I would say, don't let "Perfect" be the enemy of "Done". :)

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u/Pisforplumbing Nov 29 '22

That's why technology is so important in construction. I work in the commercial plumbing industry and an American high school 20 years ago would take 3 years to build. Now that we have chain cutters, impact drills, rubber gaskets instead of lead and oakum, a school will take half to 1/3 of the time with no increase in the number of workers on a job. Now, if we could fully switch to pro-press instead of soldering copper, then the jobs would be even less time

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u/white-gold Nov 29 '22

fully switch to pro-press

After my brother got a pro-press I don't think I've seen him solder copper on a side job since. I've also not heard of a single crimp failing yet. What's your take on their longevity?

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u/Pisforplumbing Nov 29 '22

We've only done it on a few jobs. When I was an apprentice, the plumbers that used it said it sucked because of all the leaks they were having during testing. When I was a journeyman, I used it myself and had no issues with leaks. I realized the plumbers before me didn't cut the pipe square, nor deburr the pipe.

If you do exactly as the manufacturer recommendations say, it should last as long or longer than solder. When both are done correctly, they should last longer than needing to replace the pipe from corrosion.

When comparing to solder, it's so much easier to do everything right. With solder you run the risk of voids, pinhole leaks, and temperature shock (cause plumbers love to solder and then dip the joint in cold water to cool it down).

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u/Ok_Cucumber_7954 Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

I worked on a project in Greenland on the ice sheet. Twice as long is being generous. Even with cold weather gear, 30 minutes in -45 temps (colder on some days) was about as long as we could work outside before having to go inside to warm up. We were also at about 3200m, so we had altitude issues to deal with.

Our biggest technical issue was there is no true ground on an ice sheet for electric equipment and the blowing snow/ice created a lot of static buildup. We fried equipment almost daily which slowed us down even more. The cold also caused a lot of maintenance issues with parts breaking due to cold fragility. Cold sucks so now I live in the SW USA.

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u/dangercat415 Nov 29 '22

I'm into survival and have studied it extensively. They are absolutely the experts. It's an entirely different thing and way of thinking. Training is way more important than gear. When trained properly, even with little or broken gear, you can survive for months in the arctic even without food.

This is one of the reasons the Russians got their ass handed to them in the winter war.

Finland just dominates in winter and it's part of their culture.

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u/Kandiru Nov 29 '22

With a shovel and a tea light you can make a snow shelter in pretty much any level of cold.

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u/Scereye Nov 29 '22

How do you light the tea light with a shovel only?

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u/Turbostar66 Nov 29 '22

You use the shovel to knock off a piece of ice, and then fashion a lens out of it and use the sun to light the tea light. Duh!

https://youtu.be/thbSSuo1Z00

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u/oeqzuac Nov 29 '22

this guy has never been to finland. the snow will remain stoically quiet.

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u/bonedangle Nov 29 '22

Oh, I see you know Finnish too!

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u/Captain_Sacktap Nov 29 '22

The only Finnish I know is ‘perkele’ which I’m told is roughly equivalent to ‘fuck’.

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u/FinnSwede Nov 29 '22

Perkele can really mean anything based on when and how you say it.

Source: Am a Finnish sailors who rarely speaks without cursing.

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u/TayAustin Nov 29 '22

So like the non literal usage of fuck?

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u/Awful_Goodness Nov 29 '22

Perkele is more like Damnit or Shit as an expletive.

Vittu is the equivalent of Fuck

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u/bonedangle Nov 29 '22

All things that can be quickly muttered in one breath by a Finn when they're approached by someone in public

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u/Stupid_Triangles Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

Is it pronounced "per-cull" or "per-kay-lay"?

I've never met a Finn.

Edit: thank you for teaching me how to curse around my Russian bosses when they piss me off.

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u/Sumuttaja Nov 29 '22

The louder the PE is the more acute the situation is. You can use as many r's as you find suitable for the situation. More r's corresponds to the complexity of the situation and louder the "le" is defines the seriousness of the situation.

here are some examples for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spr2EOe1f5Y

https://youtu.be/eap426M_HgY?t=38

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u/ShittyCompiler Nov 29 '22

Perrrrrrr-keh-leh.

The h are silent.

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u/MZ603 Nov 29 '22

How do you tell an introverted Finn from an extroverted one?

The introvert stairs at his shoes when he talks to you, the extravert stairs at your shoes.

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u/sdforbda Nov 30 '22

Ah a joke with steps

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u/penguinopusredux Nov 30 '22

One of my favourite Finnish jokes, and pretty accurate.

The other is Eero and Jaakko decide to meet for a drink. The home-brewed vodka is opened and they have a couple of glasses.

"Excellent vodka," Jaakko remarks. "Look, are we here to drink or to talk?" is the response.

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u/Singer211 Nov 29 '22

Finns with guns on skis, truly a terrifying sight to behold.

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u/An-Com_Phoenix Nov 29 '22

well you won't be beholding them

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u/Mundane-Land2811 Nov 29 '22

And the night speaking Ukrainian

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u/Fuzzyphilosopher Nov 29 '22

And the night speaking Ukrainian

This. Top notch night vision gear for Ukraine is much more of a priority and advantage than a lot of people recognize. So is great winter gear and training so the Finns are offering a very important support to Ukraine that may not be as sexy to most people involved in reporting and media but experienced war correspondents will know.

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u/DEADB33F Nov 29 '22

Doubly so for thermal scopes, etc.

It's during winter time that the utility of thermal scopes, thermal vision drones, etc. is unparalleled (especially when used against a foe who isn't similarly equipped).

The US may have "owned the night" when fighting insurgents in Afghanistan, and if properly equipped by allies Ukraine can "own the winter" against Russia.

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u/macsare1 Nov 29 '22

And the trees praying to Saint Javelin

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u/ReditSarge Nov 29 '22

And the rocks singing songs from the book of HIMARS*

Some exploding may occur. See rocket for details. May contain nuts.)

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u/WillieStonka Nov 29 '22

White death has entered the chat

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u/KamikazeCanuck Nov 29 '22

Don't mess with the Fins when they have skis and a long rifle.

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u/35Ranger Nov 29 '22

"Oh we remember, we remember.... WE REMEMBER!!"

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u/livious1 Nov 29 '22

SHOUT LAURI TORNI'S NAME, THE SOLDIER OF THREE ARMIES KNOWS THE GAME

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u/heavymetalelf Nov 29 '22

Larry Thorne! Thanks Sabaton

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u/Kayniaan Nov 29 '22

🎶Do you remember, that one snowy night in December🎶

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u/Asclepius777 Nov 29 '22

Simo Häyhä’s gun, glowing like an ember. 300 Russians dead todaaaaay

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u/duppy_c Nov 29 '22

Ba-dee-ya, say, do you remember?

Ba-dee-ya, snipin' in December

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u/Inehmo Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

The north remembers, Mr. Zelensky. The north remembers, and this mummer's farce is almost done.

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u/Ceratisa Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

...uh oh.. I think I've seen something like this before.

Edit: there's an irony in the fact that some of the same equipment back then is still being used.

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u/xenokilla Nov 29 '22

Yup, a mosin nagant. Developed in 1891, 30 million made, still getting 500 confirmed kills to this day. I have a 1937 model and it's still hitting at 400yd. The white death used the Finnish variety

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u/EvergreenEnfields Nov 29 '22

The Finnish army still uses a modernized version in the sniper role, the 7,62 TKIV 85. They reuse old receivers, so it's very possible - even likely - that some of those rifles are 131 years old and veterans of four or more wars.

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u/iller_mitch Nov 29 '22

My god. Finland Bubba'd their Mosins.

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u/BushDidN0thingWr0ng Nov 29 '22

I think a more apt description would be secondhand lion'd the rifles

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

Ukraine going to have one of the toughest militaries in the world

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u/Cookie_Eater108 Nov 29 '22

Heard this comment in a Warographics video recently:

In the span of a few months Russia went from having the 2nd best army in the world to having the 2nd best army in Ukraine.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

Russian soldier’s heart is not in this fight. It was over before it began. Putin will throw bodies at the situation till he gets some results though it seems

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u/edhands Nov 29 '22

Or he is no longer in charge.

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u/lis_roun Nov 29 '22

It was over the moment Putin believed his own propaganda of his "professional" forces.

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u/7thAndGreenhill Nov 29 '22

I went paintballing once with a bunch of Finns who had all done their military service. These guys were invisible and lit everyone else up.

There is a reason the Soviets suffered ridiculous casualties when they invaded Finland. You don’t want to fight them!

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u/wrecktangle1988 Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 30 '22

the fins had a little saying for the winter war to bolster morale

something along the lines of "they are so many and we are so small, where will find room to bury them all"

it was one of those HAHA cause its true

Edit: ending casualties would be 65,000-70,000 Finns vs 321,000-381,000 soviets

This would remain a war Finland could never win and it nearly went bust as Finland lacked many things. With planes and tanks numbering in the dozens, a lack of artillery shells along with general low stocks of ammunition to fuel a war

They were successful at stalling as long as possible along with inflicting horrible casualties that allowed them to negotiate from a position of strength resulting is minor relative territory loss

They would be the only nation invaded by the soviets that would retain independence and not be sucked into the greater soviet sphere and not be part of the Warsaw Pact

You could call it a strategic victory in spite of the loss

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u/sanguinesolitude Nov 29 '22

"We're surrounded. That simplifies our problem of getting to these people and killing them."

"They are in front of us, behind us, and we are flanked on both sides by an enemy that outnumbers us 29:1. They can’t get away from us now!”

“Great. Now we can shoot at them from every direction.”

Lewis "Chesty" Puller | US Marine Corps

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u/InEenEmmer Nov 29 '22

“We are surrounded? You mean this is a target rich environment.”

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u/toastar-phone Nov 29 '22

We're paratroopers, we're supposed to surrounded

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u/TacticalHog Nov 29 '22

"They've got us surrounded again, the poor bastards" - Col Creighton Abrams

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

[deleted]

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u/Kittykathax Nov 29 '22

Great quote but Arbie didn't say it. It was Rtas 'Vadum.

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u/Toxicair Nov 29 '22

Good ol half jaw.

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u/Ni987 Nov 29 '22 Gold To The Stars Spit-take

The Soviet army is marching in Finland

They hear a voice from the other side of a hill: One Finnish soldier is better than ten Soviet soldiers.

The Soviet general sends ten soldiers. There is some gunfire then everything is quiet again.

The voice then says, one Finnish soldier is better than one hundred Soviet soldiers.

The Soviet general sends one hundred Soviet soldiers. There is more gunfire and then silence.

The voice speaks up again and says one Finnish soldier is better than one thousand Soviet soldiers.

The Soviet general then sends one thousand Soviet soldiers. There is a lot of gunfire and then silence.

After awhile a Soviet soldier crawls over the hill and say to the general, do not send more troops, it's a trap, there are two Finnish soldiers.

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u/ReditSarge Nov 29 '22

Don't stop there, we need to know how this ends! Don't leave us in suspense, Finnish the story!

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u/TaintNoogie Nov 29 '22

The Finns ended up losing Karelia to the Soviets, but little Finland's defiance humiliated the Red Army so thoroughly Nazi warplanners perception of the USSR shifted, and made them reconsider the molotov-ribbentrop non-aggression pact between Hitler and Stalin paving the way for total war between the two that would devour 30 million lives. Happily ever after.

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u/nola_throwaway53826 Nov 29 '22

Finnish resistance probably saved them from the fate of the Baltic countries: outright annexation. The Soviets had even set up their own Finnish government, comprised of one drunk Finn who survived the purges and a bunch of Soviet ministers.

The Finns never ran out of courage, but in the end they ran out of material and people.

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u/Agamemnon323 Nov 29 '22

Russia sends a million soldiers. 900,000 die and Russia claims victory.

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u/wrecktangle1988 Nov 29 '22

the fins had a saying

they are so many and we are so small, where will find room to bury them all

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u/Darkmetroidz Nov 29 '22

They've built their entire society to deter Russia from ever invading them again.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

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u/_Cosmic_Joke_ Nov 29 '22

I paintballed against some reservists once. They had cool toys like throat mics/comms, and they worked together well. Their only weakness was their instinct for self preservation.

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u/_far-seeker_ Nov 29 '22

Their only weakness was their instinct for self preservation.

Isn't that a nearly universal thing? 😜

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u/LMFN Nov 29 '22

In actual war yeah but paintball is just paintball, you won't die for real so trying to avoid paintballs like they were actually bullets means you aren't moving in as fast at the enemy.

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u/mugwump867 Nov 29 '22

My work did a laser-tag team-building exercise years ago. Three of us had military training and wound up with lower kill totals than the others but also no friendly fire shots whereas everyone else was just as dangerous to their teammates as their enemies. It is very hard to just ditch your weapons training for fun.

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u/Gulmar Nov 29 '22

Which is a good thing I guess!

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u/Excelius Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

Same thing in a lot of video games.

The sweatiest players are always running around like maniacs. Sprinting into a room and using movement mechanics to throw off the enemies aim, so they can get enough shots into the enemy before they get enough shots into them.

The risk/reward in paintball and video games rewards that kind of thing. In real life you don't respawn, in real life your vision doesn't turn red for a few seconds after you take a bullet and then you're just fine.

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u/darthlincoln01 Nov 29 '22

Reminds me of the time I went paintballing in the dead of winter with snow as deep as my knees. Biggest problem is the nitrogen tanks kept freezing and safety goggles kept fogging up. After an hour of running around the woods like that had us beat.

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u/bluGill Nov 29 '22

Having done construction outdoors in winter I know from experience your tools fail before humans. Sure cold isn't fun, but with warm coats and gloves you can deal with it (what I couldn't figure out how to deal with was -1C and rain). However without tools you are limited.

Ukraine has good logistics, hopefully they invested in oil that works in winter (different grade is needed for the guns and equipment), and plenty of clothing and other winter gear.

Russia has so far been operating on bad logistics, so the right thing for Ukraine is plan their risky attacks for the coldest days in hopes that the Russians cannot fire back. (of course if they can avoid risky attacks that is all the better, but this is war) Sure winter war sucks, but it will suck more for Russia so Ukraine needs to press their attacks - as they already know.

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u/madinfects Nov 29 '22

You wanna win? Employ a Finn.

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u/elohra_2013 Nov 30 '22

Seriously lol those guys are amazing fighters.

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u/daendel Nov 29 '22

Unlike what is said in the article, we Finns got our independence in 1917. We defended it in the Winter War, 1939.

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u/k4Anarky Nov 29 '22
  • Every able bodied citizen is/was a soldier.

  • Experts in winter warfare.

  • Fighting Russians is their specialty.

  • Their entire public infrastructure is literally made to be Russian-proof.

  • Badass ski commandos.

No one is better teacher than the Finns.

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u/Gideon_Lovet Nov 29 '22

Lot of people referencing Simo Häyhä, who was absolutely a badass, but no one is mentioning another badass Finnish soldier, Aimo Koivunen. His claim to fame is being the first soldier to OD on meth in combat. After becoming separated from his squad, he took the squad's alotment of meth pills to stay awake and alert (allegedly he OD'ed accidentally due to exhaustion).

He proceeded to then go on a bender in which he stepped on a landmine that set fire to a Soviet camp, laid in a ditch for a week, survived on pine needles and a live bird he caught and ate raw, and skies some 280 miles before reaching friendly forces. And still, he had a resting heartbeat of 200 beats per minute.

Despite this, he survives the war and dies at the age of 71.

Just don't mess with the Finns. Just don't. They have more sisu than whatever an invading force could muster.

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u/killjoy_enigma Nov 29 '22

Vladimir the snow is talking..... Vladimir....?

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u/ohyeahwell Nov 29 '22

POV: You're grinding a game and you get an obvious end game weapon or skill tree.

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u/pixxxxxu Nov 29 '22

You've Unlocked a new Unit:

Finnish sniper

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u/kudichangedlives Nov 29 '22

Grab the skies!

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u/ReditSarge Nov 29 '22

You mean the skis? As in for alpine troops?

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u/kudichangedlives Nov 29 '22

I meant to grab the skies with your bare hands, rip asunder the fabric of reality and make the winter your bitch.

Ha no I definitely just misspelled skis because I can't spell.

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u/Bologna-Pony1776 Nov 29 '22
  • Simo Häyhä sounds intensify*

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u/RW-Firerider Nov 29 '22

You are in the sniper's sight!

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u/livious1 Nov 29 '22

The first kill tonight

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u/Sendstorepatter Nov 29 '22

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u/bloodklat Nov 29 '22

Häyhä's war memoir states that they captured a Soviet soldier, blindfolded him, spun him around until he was disoriented, and then took him to a party in the tent of Häyhä's company Lieutenant Aarne "The Terror of Morocco" Juutilainen. The Soviet soldier was overjoyed by the carousing and was disappointed when he was released.

Haha wtf. Also he got his 500 kills in less than 100 days. 5+ kills per day. Insane.

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u/spacebraine Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

Gets conscripted, turns down the more modern rifle offered after training and keeps his 7.62 Mosin Rifle, (Originally built in the 1890's). Dresses all in white, lays for hours in -30°c temperatures. (Coldest winter since the 1800's, but not cold enough for him). Spends the next 3 months with snow in his mouth led in piles of snow and ice getting 250+ confirmed kills with his old rifle, using only iron sights, and about the same amount with his submachine gun kills. Captures a Russian soldier, parties with him and treats him so well the russian was upset he had to leave. Gets hit in the jaw by an explosive round, survives, is given a farm for his service and went on to win every shooting competition he entered with the same rifle. Keeps on going until 2002 when he died at the ripe old age of 96. One of my hero's and rightly so.

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u/Mr_Abe_Froman Nov 29 '22

He's an absolute legend.

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u/Finwolven Nov 30 '22

Just to point out that he had been the regional shooting champion before the war, with that exact rifle, for years. As well as hunted for living, as did most others in the region - the shooting competitions were no joke.

So it was no 'miracle of talent' that made him that good. It was combination of talent, skill and literally lifetime of practice. Which makes him even more awesome.

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u/iller_mitch Nov 29 '22

Dude was a demon. But man, that has got to leave someone with some major PTSD.

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u/spacebraine Nov 29 '22

Unfortunately he was said to be lonely and fearful at times in later life and he never married. So i think its safe to say that is the case.

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u/rachel_tenshun Nov 29 '22

One of the few good parts of this war is people learning abouy how intense Finland is about defense, and how fearsome/overprepared they are for winter warfare. 🤣

Good for them.

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u/NatedogDM Nov 29 '22

I guess living next to Russia will do that to you, lol.

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u/tryharderyou Nov 29 '22

Reminded me of this jewel of a video from when Finland was training US soldiers

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u/GiantPurplePeopleEat Nov 29 '22

Oh wow, that's kinda crazy when he skis into the water. I've been cross country skiing for years and there's no way I would be able to get out of that pool of water gracefully. Also, even if they already have downhill skiing experience, cross country skis don't have metal edges usually, and they are skinny, which just makes them harder to control. Props to these guys for learning a new skill!

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u/Pekonius Nov 29 '22

You dont get out there gracefully, you get out there alive.

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u/Jassokissa Nov 29 '22

The key word is training for operating in the cold and also acclimation to it. When doing the military service in Finland 90s, I do remember being cold in October-November (of course it's also wet at that time), by January/February the cold wasn't really a problem, you get used to it (of course we had winter clothing too).

I do remember during the Kymi 96 military manouvers/training, the lieutenant came around, when I was eating my dinner, "there's this British reporter here, he wants to talk to a conscript and you're good with english". So I go outside to chat with the reporter, eating my dinner while chatting with him, wearing a t-shirt and it's -25C°, the reporter asked "how the hell do you handle the cold?". I replied "you get used to it". To be honest, it was cold but it was only for a couple of minutes it wasn't windy, so it's not that terrible.

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u/Scorpion1024 Nov 29 '22

All the predictions that winter will wreck Ukraine don’t take into account the Ukrainians are perfectly familiar with harsh winters themselves. For the state of Russia’s logistics, unless the Ukrainians halt altogether the winter will be rougher on the Russians.

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u/ajt9000 Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 30 '22

The predictions are not about Ukraine's military operations, its about the civillians in cities with destroyed energy infrastructure.

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u/tomistruth Nov 29 '22

Russians are undergeared and have basically no ammo or food supplies. The mobilization used untrained civilians without any experience in survival nor fighting. The only reason is to hold the area using them as canon fodder and hoping winter will come to stop the Ukranian advance, which the Russians use to train the real recruits who will fight in spring and summer mext year.

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u/Scorpion1024 Nov 29 '22

For as much damage as their bombardments are causing, their logistical problems will take a year or longer to repair. And I doubt the Ukrainians are going to just go idle fir an entire year. To say nothing of the problems already popping up elsewhere for Putin like the cure egg spat with Armenia. The CSTO’s days are numbered..

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u/TheGisbon Nov 29 '22

Well if anyone is professionals at killing Russians in the snow....

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u/tsuki_no_kisaki Nov 29 '22

"Finland gained independence in 1939 following what is known as the Winter War in which Moscow was dealt a bloody nose."

??????? The fuck is this article, can't even get basic facts right

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u/jdeo1997 Nov 29 '22

If the Russian army knew history they'd be very scared

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u/BolshoiSasha Nov 29 '22

I feel at this point Ukraine should be training NATO

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u/Candy_Badger Nov 29 '22

Finns remember fighting Soviets. I think it will be useful for Ukrainian soldiers.

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u/StillBurningInside Nov 29 '22

When the snow in Ukraine starts speaking Finnish.

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