r/worldnews 5d ago All-Seeing Upvote 3 Narwhal Salute 1 Doom 1 Insightful Comment 1 Stone Face 1 Silver 4 Helpful 8 Wholesome 2

Zelenskyy calls for 'strong reaction' from the UN after Russian bombs left millions of Ukrainians without heat and water in below-freezing temperatures: 'We expect the reaction of friends — not just observers' Russia/Ukraine

https://www.businessinsider.com/zelenskyy-calls-for-strong-global-response-to-russian-energy-attacks-2022-11?r=US&IR=T
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u/MrBIMC 5d ago edited 5d ago Silver Gold Platinum Helpful Wholesome Hugz All-Seeing Upvote Coin Gift Starry Tearing Up To The Stars

Today was a weird day. No electricity as I woke up and went to work, no electricity as I came back from work.

Streets felt quite apocalyptic. Traffic lights not working, every second building using loud generator that stands right besides the building entry. On my way back traffic cops got put to every other cross-section to reduce the chaos.

My electronic devices died by 19-30 and so I decided my only option at this point is to go to sleep as there's not much I can do in the dark. Woke up half-an-hour ago. Still no electricity, no idea what time it is. Used gas stove to make some tea. And as I sat at my kitchen table and unpacked pakhlava that I bought on my way home, electricity got back online. I thought it was 3 or 4 am, but apparently it is not even midnight! I haven't been so time-lost in like forever lol. Btw, home internet is still not back, but at least mobile hotspot works well.

Last few days government tries to prepare us to get used to these new reality and expect to not have electricity nor water for days at a time. Services are mobilized, but it might take up to a week to restore the infra, but even that is under threat if Russia to perform such attacks every week.

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u/ywBBxNqW 5d ago

It's insane how much modern life depends on electricity and how weird you feel when you don't have access to it.

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u/Luy22 5d ago

No internet or electricity and I revert to caveman, actually lol.

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u/captainbignips 5d ago Take My Energy

At least cavemen knew how to survive, without electricity I turn into a child lost in the woods

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u/GhostNSDQ 5d ago

Actually children lost in the woods have a higher survival rate than adults.

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u/Canuck_Lives_Matter 5d ago

I could believe it. If my wife and I magically had no baby, and we went and hot lost in the woods, it wouldn't surprise me if we went a week easily with nobody noticing we are gone. Our work will call us, but if they don't get an answer you can bet they won't just call the cops or our parents. My parents or hers never call us, just expect us to call them, and even then two weeks silence is no shocker, so week two for them would roll around and they wouldn't think twice about my absence lol.

Really hammers it home that if you are going for a walk in the woods or a drive on the highway, make sure someone knows you are going

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u/lysianth 4d ago

My work will call the cops if you no call no show and you don't answer your phone.

They will also immediately call the cops if someone else tries to call in sick for you.

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u/jimicus 4d ago

Dear Christ, where do you work? NSA?

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u/lysianth 4d ago

Most of my adult life has been between working at welfare office and in child protective services. So I guess that leans more towards safety being an issue than most other jobs.

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u/Flyinmanm 4d ago

Imagines someone having a forced entry for having laryngitis.

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u/HuskerDave 5d ago

Probably because their tiny legs don't get them near as far before people start looking for them.

I'd be half way to Antarctica before anyone knew I was missing.

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u/FromagePuant69 4d ago

Damn, you must have some long legs.

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u/ProjectOrpheus 4d ago

DaveyLongLegs over here

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u/slicerprime 4d ago

I'd be half way to Antarctica before anyone knew I was missing.

I'd be halfway to Antarctica before anyone cared I was missing, and I'm not really sure if that's good or a bad thing.

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u/KIDA_Rep 5d ago edited 5d ago

Anytime there’s a mention of kids getting lost in the woods I always think of that kid that got lost and when they found him he had the most thousand yard stare I have seen in my life.

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u/pirikikkeli 5d ago

You gotta be kidding.. right?

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u/Magmaul 5d ago

Search times for children are usually lower, because people notice them missing sooner and generally know they have very low chance of actually surviving outside without much help.

Adults on the other hand either don't have someone watching them at all times or if they are missing, people assume they just got delayed somewhere or that they can handle themselves alright. Oftentimes, adults who get lost also overestimate their abilities.

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u/dizorkmage 5d ago

Excuse me but I watch primitive technology, now the first step was to make brick fired roof... no that's not right, water powered trebuchet hammer? Hmmm well I'll work of crafting iron pellets from Slag while I think on it

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u/Feral0_o 5d ago

now that I really think about it, digging a moat is probably not going to increase my survival chances by much

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u/Catsdontpaytaxes 5d ago

And here the rest of us are drinking our own piss :/

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u/shmip 5d ago

First goal should be making a fire and getting it big enough to be seen from the air

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u/AdminsAreLazyID10TS 5d ago

Set fire to the Californian woods, check.

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u/KwordShmiff 5d ago

Actual first step should be fashioning a rustic yet luxurious subterranean swimming pool with lounging area.

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u/JBLurker 5d ago

Annnnd.... there goes the redwoods.

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u/kimkje 5d ago

No, this is a fairly well observed phenomenon, it's a real thing. I know I read an article explaining it better at some point, but trying to search that up again is just drowned in search results about various stories from people being lost.

If I remember correctly though, there is at least one major reason for this:

Small children lost in the woods tend to not move around a lot, and instead tend to stay in the same relative area, both because they just instinctively do this, and because... well, they got tiny legs yo. Makes them much easier to find more quickly by those looking for them.

Adults and older children will however be more likely to start moving long distances trying to find their way back - getting lost even worse in the process. "I am clever. I am not lost. I can find my way back. I'm gonna go THIS way." And poof, suddenly you're way worse off, outside of the areas where people are looking for you, and even more exhausted than you were to begin with.

If you get lost, best thing you can do is to stay where you are and wait until you are found. Make yourself visible if you can. Small children will naturally do this. Us grown up smooth-brained idiots? Not so much.

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u/WalnutsGaming 5d ago

Aka if you’re going hiking alone. Bring a light, lighter, or really strong lazer pointer. I’m about ready to start a lazer pointer vending machine for hiking trails. Unless your unconscious and injured unable to use the lazer pointer. How long would it take to find someone at night shining a colored spotlight into the sky. Hell you hit a plane with it they’ll prioritize finding you lmao.

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u/GhostNSDQ 5d ago

Nope. I read it in an article in some outdoor magazine some years ago. The thinking is that when a child is thirsty they will drink water from whatever source is available. When children are tired they will find a spot to rest instead of pushing themselves thus conserving energy. Keep in mind im not talking about people lost for weeks in the Sahara, but wooded or mountain areas where the temperatures are not too extreme.

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u/imback550 5d ago

Kids also may only get lost by 500 meters or more sure but not as far as an adult trekking out in the back country and getting lost in the woods.

So yeah the Stat says kids survive more but they also are usually in two different situations most of the time.

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u/ClickF0rDick 5d ago

Great point

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u/ender52 5d ago

I would guess people notice kids are missing sooner than adults.

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u/ClutzyCashew 5d ago

Not to mention if you call and say “my 5 yr old wondered off in the woods and I can’t find him, it’s only been 45 min but I’m really worried” people are going to care. If you call and say “my 35 yr old husband wondered off in the woods and he’s been gone for 45 min” I don’t think people will care as much. I don’t think they’ll send out a whole search party for a grown man that went to get firewood and hasn’t come back yet but they (hopefully) would for a child that disappeared.

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u/Teckiiiz 5d ago

Depending on how much you care about surviving the pending shitstorm, you're currently connected to the internet and could learn some shit. Knots? site link Fire? youtube vid link

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u/Jeezal 5d ago

Keep in mind that no electricity means literally reverting to cavemen not only because of the internet but also because that also means NO: heating, plumbing or running water

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u/time_flask 5d ago

Yup we have this in South Africa too. And we're lucky since a kot of other parts of Africa aren't even close to being as electrified and connected as we are. At this point we have power cuts daily and it's currently summer so the load us lower. Now it's manageable about 5 hours of no power. You're forced to cut down on TV, the cell towers get clogged up so you're also effectively offline. Mogjt jave to change meal plans if it's during your cooking time. We've had outages where there's no power for three days, I know people that had it out for longer. It's just such an essential we forget. And once your passed one day all your battery packs and whatever are dead so you're truly and properly analogue.

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u/jimicus 4d ago

I would think SA would be the perfect place to install solar on your roof.

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u/Persus9 5d ago All-Seeing Upvote Respect

It’s insane how much modern life depends on not being invaded by a megalomaniac.

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u/ImmoralityPet 5d ago

History just kinda trucks along in straight lines between megalomaniac invasions.

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u/dotd93 5d ago edited 4d ago

Yup, the world gets a new megalomaniac once every 80-100 years and it’s always the same shit, just rebranded/repackaged. History is cyclical because it only takes 3 generations to forget.

*Edit: words

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

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u/jral1987 5d ago

If I lost electricity for protesting the day of I may not really care too much but not having it the day after would infuriate me even more and then I'd be out protesting violently the next day so to me that makes no sense at all. I am not sure if that is actually making it worse there but that is how i'd feel.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

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u/Reller35 5d ago

Yep. When Superstorm Sandy blew through NJ USA we went to sleep by 8 and woke up with the sun. It was also damn cold, and I felt like a genius for gassing up my car right before the storm hit. 10 days of crazy before power came back.

Even with that experience, i cannot even begin to imagine being in Ukraine right now.

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u/NSFW418 5d ago

Totally different scenario, but one of our favorite nights as roommates was when we lost power one night and all just hung out in the living room with a camping lantern.

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u/TruthBusy4723 5d ago

Yeah,, romantic stuff,, right?

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u/h08817 5d ago

Part of the reason I like automatic watches

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u/Singmetosleep123 5d ago

How is your attitude and your coworkers to this new reality?

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u/MrBIMC 5d ago

Everyone knows that we're in a state of war. We just have to endure it. Everyone tries their best. Most are discussing ways to best prepare for the imminent reality that electricity and heating is something that we'll have hours a week, instead of it being on as a default state. Many have no balconies so generators are no-go. Not everyone has gas stoves(as historically electric ones were much trendier and also gas being impossible/hard to deliver to highrises).

Most are actually impressed how efficient services are at hotfixing the damages. Imagine being able to restore(albeit partially) supplies of water and electricity in a span of hours every time attack happens, while working in a +1C wet snow/rain weather. Infrastructure workers are unsung heroes of this war and I hope they get the respect and praise they deserve.

Though I'm not a good representative of average Ukrainian as I'm wealthy enough to pay for any additional stuff I need. People in other social circles of mine are feeling despair much more, as they were struggling even during peacetime, and now they some can't even cook food for themselves as they simply miss their timeframe of electricity and can't afford to live off deliveries. Situation is certainly hard for the bottoms of society and I expect it to get really sad as time goes on. Though everyone understands that there's nothing to protest about as the only way through is to endure until we win. Any backtracks and compromises with aggressor by the government will be seen as a betrayal of Ukrainian people.

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u/Singmetosleep123 5d ago

Thank you for your perspective. Good luck to you all.

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u/Dhiox 5d ago

Infrastructure workers are unsung heroes of this war and I hope they get the respect and praise they deserve.

Hope post war the government puts together awards for emergency and infrastructure workers similar to what you might those who served in war. Obviously it's not the same thing, but their duties and work is no less important.

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u/TaterTotJim 4d ago

It may not be “the same thing” but both are equally important. Maintaining sanitation and utilities for civilians is crucial for general health reasons.

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u/Piedro92 5d ago

If you can, stock up on big power banks. Like 20-40.000 mAh. That way you can charge those when power is up, and you can use them to charge devices if needed.

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u/BlackOcelotStudio 5d ago

I have 3 ukrainian friends, each of which lives in a different city, and they all said the entire supply of powerbanks and batteries in ukraine and even surrounding countries has been fully bought out weeks ago, so that's a premium item right now.

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u/dramatic_prophet 5d ago

Yeah. Some basic 20k powerbank can't be found for less than $100 in Kyiv.

But also, a lot of my friends got EcoFlow instead. I don't know why, but this exact vendor of big 100k+ powerbanks is on trend right now, it's almost became word for big power bank already

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u/WeekendSignificant48 5d ago

Is everyone still going to work and stuff as normal?

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u/MrBIMC 5d ago

Is everyone still going to work and stuff as normal?

Yep. Until we are, apocalypse is averted.

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u/DukeOfGeek 4d ago

Infrastructure workers are unsung heroes of this war

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u/Toocents 5d ago

There's not a lot most of us can do. But I promise that most of the world is with you.

I will never, ever, for the rest of my life, forget what Russia has been doing to your people.

I will never forgive them for it either.

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u/Chungster03 5d ago

What an awful situation, hope the best for Ukrainians. Also I would recommend a wrist watch so you can keep time incase this happens again in the future.

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u/MrBIMC 5d ago

I do have a wrist watch, but it is samsung gear 5 classic running android so I have troubles managing charging with how many stuff I have to upkeep with multiple laptops, phone, headphones and powerbanks.

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u/damnedon 5d ago

As a Ukrainian I bought a small power station (actually a big powerbank, something along the line with ecoflow but from another brand). It's expensive, but so useful.

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u/crochet_du_gauche 5d ago

A reliable Casio watch whose battery will last for years costs $30, at least in the US.

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u/Jimmyg100 4d ago

See if you can get a mechanical wind-up clock. Something that doesn't even run on electricity.

The digital age has made a lot of things convenient, but it all relies on a working infrastructure. It definitely doesn't hurt to have some backups for emergency. Analog clocks, crank operated flashlight/radio, paperback books, notebooks, pencils, etc. You gotta look at what you have that needs a stable power supply and find an alternative to it you can have ready just in case.

Anyway hang in there and fuck those Russian A-holes.

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u/Slaan 5d ago

human traffic regulators

I feel there are two very, very different jobs hiding behind this job title.

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u/MrBIMC 5d ago

Lol true.

No idea how to call those guys tho. Car traffic directors? Guys with reflective pointy sticks guiding the traffic? Sounds too verbose!

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u/Brokelynne 5d ago

Lol, it’s ok. At least in the US, they’re called “traffic cops.”

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u/fubarbob 5d ago

"crossing guards" might also fit if they're meant mainly to manage pedestrian crossings

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u/Slaan 5d ago

As described traffic cop is probably rather appropriate, because if traffic lights are off they also need to direct car traffic.

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u/ZippyDan 5d ago

"Traffic enforcers" or "traffic controllers" as in many countries they are not police.

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u/upstackerC 5d ago

Traffic orchestrators might work.

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

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u/space_moron 5d ago

At first I thought he was explaining that the human trafficking situation had gotten so bad that they had people checking IDs at every apartment complex or something. Wouldn't shock me about this awful war.

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u/farqsbarqs 5d ago

That was my interpretation as well

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u/khalicia 5d ago

Stay safe

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u/francoboy7 5d ago edited 5d ago

Are you in Kyiv ?

Edit: Got it guys... Kyiv not Kiev, I told my autocorrect to correct itself from now on

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u/MrBIMC 5d ago

yep near olympic stadium area.

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u/UsefullPeace 5d ago

I wish you all the best

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u/SmokesBoysLetsGo 5d ago

All the rest of us wish you the best as well!!

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u/Baelthor_Septus 5d ago

Solar panels aren't really popular in Ukraine? In Poland it's now hard to see a house without it. Agents call me every day trying to sell it.

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u/MrBIMC 5d ago

Depends.

I have solar panels on my parents home in my hometown of Chernihiv, as do many of their neighbors. But that is rich people area and is not really representative for most Ukrainians.

In general solar is a thing for the new highrises and for wealthy individuals' private homes. Before the war having solar is not something most bothered about as Ukraine never had electricity supplies problem and it seemed like either something redundant or too pricey.

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u/Baelthor_Septus 5d ago

Yes that makes sense. We don't really have electricity outage here as well, but people still "buy" them to save money. By "buy" I mean government program, where the gov pays most of the cost of the installation. I never really got into the program (don't know why), but I gotta say electricity now went crazy up, partially due to war.

Anyway, I hope you'll be alright. It's already cold in here (-9) so I can't imagine how bad it's there :/.

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u/MrBIMC 5d ago

It was actually +2 today, which felt way worse than -5 couple days ago as everything is covered by raining wet snow and the mist is very thick.

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u/themattack 5d ago

I know it'll never be enough, but what would be the best way to help right now?

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u/MrBIMC 5d ago Silver Take My Energy

I'm lucky enough to be better off than the most of our society. If you want to help, donate to https://u24.gov.ua/

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u/Leg-Fabulous 5d ago

Thanks, one of a number of donations I've made since Feb. Donated $100 for "rebuilding Ukraine". In support of the trouble you and your country have ahead.

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u/watson895 5d ago

Fuck it, I'm in for 500. Spend it well, on ammunition.

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u/rikki-tikki-tavvi 5d ago

Thanks for the link! €50 donated

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u/Antorkh 5d ago

Just donated 10$ hope this will help. Its not much, but what I can afford right now

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u/Seskapill 5d ago

$10 dollars is plenty! If many people do it it adds up :)

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u/mcar1227 5d ago Helpful

Matched your 10

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u/funwillfunwill 5d ago

Stay safe. I hope power can be restored again quickly

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u/Temple-Of-Badgers 5d ago

Good luck man! Wish you all the best and stay strong.

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u/Topcity36 5d ago

Stay safe friend

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u/chickenstalker 5d ago

Look on the bright side. In 10 years time, you can use this experience as your version of "back in my day we walked uphill in the blizzard to school both ways" when your kids complain about something.

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u/TheGuyWithTheMatch 5d ago

This shit makes me feel so useless... is there anything individuals can do to help ? (speaking from Germany now)

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u/Razzle_55 5d ago

I think donating money to the Ukrainian military is the way to go. At least that's what I try to do monthly. The faster the Russian army gets wiped out, the faster this madness ends.

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u/Mezzaomega 4d ago

If you want to help, donate to https://u24.gov.ua/

That's what a ukrainian commented earlier in this thread.

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u/Wetnosedcretin 5d ago

Serious question: What can other countries actually do? Apart from condemning the attack, what options do they have that they are likely to use?

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u/Draco137WasTaken 5d ago

Humanitarian aid and more supplies for Ukraine's defense.

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u/The_R4ke 5d ago

I think the latest round of aid from the US included stuff like generators.

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u/Stop-Yelling 5d ago

It was generators, replacement parts for Howitzers and a bunch of mortar, small arms and HIMAR ammo.

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u/Willing_Breadfruit 4d ago

So weird that we keep sending so much HIMAR ammo when Russia have destroyed more than 5x the number of HIMARs that we sent (/s)

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u/drowningininceltears 4d ago

Crazy how every truck Russia destroys is HIMARS.

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u/dsdoll 5d ago

You can send money, food, supplies. But in reality, Russian people have to rise up and take back their country. Even if the threat of nuclear retaliation is a bluff, NATO can't risk going to war.

Only Russian people actually have the power to take back their country, they just don't realize it, either because of heavy propaganda or fear. It's tough, but something has to happen eventually, Putin will turn Russia into North Korea before he ever stands down.

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u/eno4evva 5d ago edited 5d ago

I keep saying this exact same thing, ideally there should be mass protests in Russia but apparently a lot of the older population is behind Putin so doubt.

Edit: should be noted that a lot of this is due to the older folks relying more on cable tv for news/info, which often has the state controlling what is said. Vs the younger population that rely more on social media which is harder to control. And would you believe it, a lot of social media sites are restricted there now.

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u/redloin 5d ago

Working on a project here in Canada with a Russian national from Washington state. The guy believed to his core that kids were getting killed by Ukrainian Nazis. This guy lives in the west, but the propaganda goes deep to the bone. Now imagine in Russia where they are only getting one side of the story.

Russians won't rise up until they are hungry and cold. And that isn't happening any time soon.

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u/PM_ME_BIG_RADIALS 5d ago

If it makes you feel any better, I'm going through the process of hiring a Russian international student into a co-op at my employer (western Canada), and that dude is hardcore anti Putin and will rant about it at any opportunity. So there's hope for the younger generation!

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u/GlassBoxes 5d ago

Attended a wedding this summer with a couple who left Russia to attend the wedding and were never returning. Her parents were high up in the military, super pro-Putin and she was like "yeah, so... Fuck em, basically."

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u/GabaPrison 4d ago

That woman must have some wild stories to tell.

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u/MrWeirdoFace 4d ago

There is. I work with a few Russians online and not one of them is pro war. They are all younger in there twenties and thirties though.

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u/KingBarbarosa 5d ago

there are american conservatives who are in power that believe that democrats are kidnapping and eating babies. propaganda is a hell of a drug

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u/dingodoyle 5d ago

What makes you think that the vast majority of Russians don’t support their war?

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u/mannotron 5d ago

Theres no real way to know. The proportional levels of support for the war rose after criticism was criminalised and protestors were being threatened with years of prison - in states where dissent is punished, people tend to be a lot less vocal about criticism.

What is certain is that the Russian people will pay a heavy price for generations to come for this war, both in the blood of their young men and with a sharp decline in quality of life. And the longer it goes on the worse it will be for them.

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u/AldousShuxley 5d ago

Seems to be zero interest in rising up in Russia though. Just because we think they should doesn't mean they do or want to.

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u/objctvpro 5d ago

Unless there is actual hunger in Ruzzia - there is zero chance of any kind of uprising happening. West is just being naive somewhat betting on this option.

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u/doctor-falafel 4d ago

Russian people have to rise up and the back their country

At this point this sounds a bit like a joke meme doesn't it?

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u/Deadpool_MM 5d ago

Obviously offensive supplies. I know that this subject will lead to absolutely nothing, at least at this point. And it will be criticised in the face of “fear of escalation”.

But as much as defensive supplies are important, shooting down some equipment, bases, and other important objects in the longer distance, will bring more results.

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u/GoBirdsz 5d ago

I hate how every one knows exactly what constitutes war crimes but countries are rarely every held accountable for them. O

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u/ContemplatingPrison 5d ago edited 5d ago

Its hard to hold a country accountable especially when you're already sanctioning them. The US doesn't even recognize international courts and Russia doesn't either.

Short of going to war over it what can actually be done?

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u/FirstBankofAngmar 5d ago

That's the thing, there's nothing you can really do. In order to enforce these rules the entire world would need to go to war against these agents every time these rules were broken to enforce them. And we have two pretty good past events that make people hesitant to do that a third time, let alone regularly. So the best we can do is point it out, shun it, sanction it, and MAYBE some covert funding of insurgents whose interests align.

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u/shaigil 5d ago

Yeah, stopping war is primarily a peacetime exercise and primarily comes through military and economic integration. China and NATO could never afford to go to war, for example, and if they did that would be such a colossal failure of leadership that I’d hope everyone responsible for that decision would be immediately seized and destroyed by angry mobs. But a fossil fuel economy like Russia might easily convince themselves that they could get away with attacking a non-NATO, non-EU member though.

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u/jordoonearth 5d ago

Georgia 2008. North Caucasus 2009. Donesk 2014. Ukraine 2022.

Russia hasn't stopped this kind of action now for nearing 20 years.

It's like being in a mass-shooter scenerio. At some point it's time to rush the guy with the gun before he runs out of ammo executing entitiy by entitiy slowly and with total impunity.

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u/Vertsama 5d ago

It's more like a mass shooter scenario where the shooter is also strapped full of explosives ready to pull the trigger the second you stop him, it's also rigged so incase he falls to the ground in any way they detonate.

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u/Jeremy252 5d ago

You don’t rush the guy with nukes. It’s very easy to say that behind your keyboard.

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u/MachineElfOnASheIf 5d ago

Well, we all know the third one is the finale so I'd like to avoid it.

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u/Lieutenant_Joe 5d ago

We can’t have a nuclear apocalypse yet

I’m not even finished with Stormblood

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u/accountofrubbish404 5d ago

better hurry up shadowbringers and endwalker

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u/Rachet20 5d ago

I have a literal month of playtime and I still could not figure out what Stormblood meant…

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u/ravioliguy 5d ago

I'm excited for the stick warfare of WW4

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u/lenzflare 5d ago

Ohh, look at Mr Fancy with his stick!

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u/truth_hurtsm8ey 5d ago

The US set a precedent.

If you have nukes and money nobody can say shit to you.

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u/level_17_paladin 5d ago

The US doesn't even recognize international courts and Russia doesn't either.

It is worse than that.

Hague Invasion Act

the act technically allows the President to order U.S. military action—such as a theoretical invasion of The Hague, Netherlands, the location of the ICC—to protect American officials and military personnel from prosecution or rescue them from custody.

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u/Shamanifest 5d ago

Only losers get held accountable for war crimes, and no one has lost yet. Give it time and hopefully someone will answer for this

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u/free2game 5d ago

You have to lose unilaterally for that to happen. Russians aren't going to face warcrimes.

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u/Shamanifest 5d ago edited 5d ago

Not like the Nazis did, they may pay by being international pariahs for some time but it won't be the kinda justice lots of people watching this conflict want. Time will tell

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u/Shitychikengangbang 5d ago

Piranhas lol

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u/Shamanifest 5d ago

Fucking autocorrect lol

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u/Andreomgangen 5d ago

It won't be the kind of justice that prevents it happening again is the point.

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u/DowntownsClown 5d ago

Because getting involved war is not fun

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u/AbsentGlare 5d ago

The problem is that all the powerful countries have committed their own atrocities so they have vested interests in sweeping shit under the rug, even if they strongly condemn with useless words.

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u/nyc-will 5d ago

I mean, what tools do we have? Aside from economic sanctions and public shaming, what's another country able to do? It's not like the UN can show up and drag putin to court

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u/TheEverHumbled 5d ago

War crimes can only get punished if the perpetrators are militarily defeated or deposed from within.

Getting into a war with a war criminal is an easy way for more civilians to be harmed, and the people who typically want to do so often have their own motives.

Saddam Hussein perpetrated plenty of vile stuff. The international community had the opportunity, but didn't push to depose him in operation Desert Storm, as the international community didn't want the potential quagmire.

With Iraq War 2: The return of a Bush, Saddam's Ba'ath regime was deposed and Saddam was captured in a hole. Civilian deaths from that conflict in 2003-2006 ranged from ~100k, with some sources going as high as a million deaths due to factors caused by that war and the unrest around it.

In my opinion, getting real justice for past wrongs by the powerful tends to be very difficult in our world and often entails infuriating tradeoffs.

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u/drapeslover 5d ago

If bombing power stations is a war crime you should read what happened in Iraq.

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u/TrespasseR_ 5d ago

Nothing to be done? What would say the US do? Sanction Russia more? How so? You cant. Short of our troops firing at Russians, Ukraine has limited options.

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u/5kyl3r 5d ago

i have ukrainian friends and seeing them post a selfie on instagram in full outside winter gear inside their apartment with only candle light and text on their story showing "-3C" inside their apartment. no running water. no way to cook food. it breaks my heart. fuck russia

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u/Jackson_Cook 5d ago

My friend had to walk for 45 minutes each way to reach a place where she could send a text message to let me know she's okay. The silence sucks

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u/Zestyclose_Acadia_40 4d ago

At least it'll make for a great old-personism one day. "When I was your age, I had to walk 45 minutes to get reception, and it was uphill both ways!"

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

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u/NotDrZiegler 5d ago

how they keep their phone charged

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u/rich1051414 5d ago

Locals with generators charging their neighbors phones. You can find videos of people with generators setting up charging stations and only accepting donations as payment.

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u/Plenkr 5d ago

Yep, A Ukrainian-Belgian national was telling on national TV how Ukrainians that have something offer it to their neighbours. If someone has running water they offer others to come take a bath. All stuff like that. She said there was a lot of solidarity among citizens. She said they have a like moto that was something like: No water, no energy, no russians. Meaning: Yes, we have no energy or water but also have no russians/russian government. They are incredibly brave and strong but my heart also breaks for them. What the russians are doing is unfathomable.

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u/knoegel 5d ago

This mentality is exactly why it is almost impossible to invade a nation with near-peer technology. Almost every invasion has fairly little resistance but there's is nothing like a nation defending its home. Even if they lose, the invader is going to take extremely heavy losses.

The sick part is Russia is okay with it since Ukraine has natural gas so the heavy losses are just considered an investment.

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u/5kyl3r 4d ago

and there's no point attacking russia's energy infrastructure as a tit-for-tat payback because russia literally doesn't give a fuck about its own citizens

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u/Old_Ladies 5d ago

Well the Taliban have shown us that you can defeat a technological advanced nation. It just might take many years.

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u/SomeOtherRandomHuman 5d ago

In addition to the other responses that lay it out… charging a phone takes very little… heating a home is realllly energy intensive.

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u/DarkKimzark 5d ago

Government set up special tents with generators, where you can charge your phone, if you don't have a power bank. But what use is it, if there's no mobile internet or even cell network. Where I live, we couldn't even make a phone call for 12 hours.

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u/RabidsouthAfrican 4d ago

Guy I work with is from ukrain and he's all torn up about it lately, started smoking again and has been very quiet

Just a few weeks ago he was showing me selfies from his family near cruise missle craters. Worse still, the man is against guns entirely, but if he goes back to his family he'll be drafted. I couldn't even imagine going through that

Hopefully RU collapses soon, they've certainly been shaking these last few weeks

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u/DannyWasBored 5d ago edited 4d ago

My grandpa is in Kyiv right now and currently has no electricity, water, and, food. He’s taking care of his family while having problems of his own

Edit: too much people were talking about a cultural misspelling, take my happy fix

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u/AmsterdamHooker 5d ago

Hope he makes it out well. Strong guy.

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u/DannyWasBored 5d ago edited 4d ago

Thank you! My mom’s side of the family is Russian and Ukrainian and both have long lifespans, so my great grandparents are alive but my granddad needs to take care of them. That’s why he can’t evacuate. My grandma isn’t doing well either as a lot of companies stopped developing in Russia

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u/StuckieLromigon 5d ago

9 months ago I was in my village sitting amidst midnight due to insomnia. Playing some games. Then I heard explosions and my life changed. We were living near city but no buses reached us as sun rised. Then we started to get bombed, every night we couldn't fall asleep cause our house shuddered from exlosions. Some glasses break. But we were lucky. I was going scouting and discovered other buildings partially destroyed. Groceries stopped working in next couple of days after queue to one of them was massacred by russian missile. We tried to escape, but first attempt was unsuccessful and by the time we were forced to return home we've discovered that electricity was gone too. Then they've destroyed boilers so we were left freezing, it was -17C outside and buildings were slowly but steadily freezing. Electrity was a luxury and we rarely turned on our phones and only to inform our relatives that we're alive and undamaged. so most of the time we were sitting with no connection for other world. I was wfh and was hoping to not get fired cause Im not able to continue my work.

Today I've felt the same. No lights, no heat, no water. But do we want to capitulate? To surrender? No. Not on single fraction. Yes we're frightened with uncertainity of our future. But everything i want now is a revenge. They ruined my village, they killed a lot of our people, some of them i knew and all i want now is us to win this fucking war.

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u/dundai 5d ago Wholesome

Too many bots here.

More anti air defense especially NASAMS would've change the situation. Anyway, we're thankful for what we've already got. In cold and without a light but not given up liberty. That's a price for freedom.

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u/5kyl3r 5d ago

they said NASAMS has had 100% fire to hit ratio. pretty aesome. hope we send more

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u/TacticoolRaygun 5d ago edited 5d ago

NASAMS and IRIS-T has 100% success rate. Although, IRIS-T isn’t mass produced yet or many platforms made. The great thing about NASAMS is they can many different types of missiles on their platform which is key for many nations aid packages.

Edit: I was inform the IRIS-T had one miss.

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u/afito 5d ago

IRIS-T had one missile miss its target but that was in the literal first days, which also were the first operational days of the system ever. NASAMS hit rate likely depends a lot on which missile its mounted with, technically it could even use the IRIS SLMs too. Older, cheaper, higher range missiles will inevitably have higher miss chances but at least you can restock them in time.

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u/TacticoolRaygun 5d ago

Okay, I missed that info. Thanks for the update.

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u/guspaz 5d ago

Not just many different types of missiles, NASAMS can use the same AMRAAM and Sidewinder air-to-air missiles that NATO aircraft use and have in abundant supply.

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u/VikingBorealis 5d ago

Abundant supply is apparently not as true as we thought. Everyone just produced as need because no one actually have xpected to need a huge stockpile for a war. No one expected anyone to be dumb enough to actually start a major war today, so it was more important to project strength through having the war machines and showing them off, not actually having the supplies to use them for extended periods of time. And even production capacity apparently isn't what's expected either since they're never ordered in huge quantities anymore, as they usually all just get destroyed again when they go out of date.

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u/guspaz 5d ago

They have, however, been built in far greater quantities than any traditional air defense missile has been. The fact that the Sidewinder is used by so many countries (both NATO and non-NATO) means that they're far more available than IRIS-T or Patriot missiles.

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u/Miamiara 5d ago

At this moment any air defencd no matter how old is welcome, the territory is just too big. But easier solution would be allowing targeting launch sites and providing long range missiles.

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u/ikverhaar 5d ago

Yes, they would, but NATO simply doesn't have enough anti air defense to cover an area as large as Ukraine, or at least not far enough equipment they don't need themselves. We rely more om air to air missiles than ground to air missiles. Huge numbers of Manpads scattered across the country combined with a central command to warn the relevant troops where they need to aim are probably the best option.

But I do really hope that plenty of new stuff is being built for them.

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u/kalirion 5d ago

NATO simply doesn't have enough anti air defense to cover an area as large as Ukraine

To prevent this specific kind of scenario, covering the critical infrastructure would've been enough.

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u/Untinted 5d ago

The problem is that because invading russia is off the table, even in the best outcome where Ukraine gets back Crimea, this will now be the new reality.

Why should Russia not just bomb Ukraine regularly? It's clearly working and without any consequences.

There has to be some consequences to these attacks on regular infrastructure, discovering where these missiles are coming from and bombing the shit out of them should be a clear and valid option.

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u/cerkie2 5d ago

Historically speaking, the end of this and the end of putin are probably going to be the same thing.

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u/Mutombo17 4d ago

Russia cannot sustain the invasion for a number of reasons. 1) their demography is terrible. They have a rapidly aging population with no “replacement” young generation of similar size. Their economy is going to shrink big time over the next decade or so. Also, the draft caused an estimated hundreds of thousands of young working age men to flee the country, which is the very last thing they needed right now. Less people means they don’t have the manufacturing base to continue to build things that go bang and boom. 2) sanctions and a shrinking economy means they can’t afford to buy an endless supply of weapons from other countries, and the weapons they have been buying are not what you’d call “advanced” and are often made up of western parts (Iranian drones). Once the US closes the loopholes on those sanctions, purchasing things like drones will suddenly be a much harder. 3) there are regional cultures within Russia that will not tolerate being part of a collapsing culture and economy and may make a move at breaking away if the conditions in Russia get bad enough, which they will. 4) the seemingly endless supply chain for their oil and natural gas is incredibly vulnerable and nations will begin to find alternatives. 5) their military is famously outdated and inept.

With enough support, Ukraine can prevail.

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u/Elithorz 5d ago

Why should Russia not just bomb Ukraine regularly? It's clearly working and without any consequences.

That's what I have been thinking, this is never going to end, Russia will keep selling cheap oil, using the money to build missiles, and toss them into Ukraine whenever they feel like it because, hey, "we have nukes and you can't touch us"

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u/nropotdetcidda 5d ago

I’m not even sure why we have the term “war crime” when the world does absolutely dick to prevent them, and zero consequences to those who do them, let alone repeatedly.

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u/Turokr 5d ago

War crimes are only enforced/punished after the war is over.

There is no way to stop Russia from committing war crimes besides directly declaring war against them and getting troops to Moscow.

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u/fifa-13-Esswein 5d ago

Yeah war crimes are a joke. Both Russia and USA don’t recognise international courts so cannot be prosecuted of them

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u/amluchon 4d ago

The International Criminal Court is often called the African Criminal Court since that's pretty much the only continent where they can enforce the laws governing individual responsibility for international crimines.

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u/ZenClockWork 5d ago Silver Helpful

Russian here... For all people, who suffer because of this war - I am sorry that our govrenment and their puppets do.

Please, just know, there are Russians that know the truth and are sorry for everything, but can't do anything, because we are hostages of that horrible regime.

Hold on, people of Ukraine, hope you will be able to forgive us someday...

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u/HammerfestNORD 5d ago

Most humans love other humans. We just hate the government shitheads who's heads become bloated and stuck deep up their ass.

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u/Such_Economist_756 5d ago

As another Russian I second every single word of what u just said! Glory to Ukraine and may Putin rot in hell soon! Russia will be free!

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u/GrantedPermission 5d ago Wholesome

Don’t worry homie we all love you still. It’s not your fault

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u/ZenClockWork 5d ago

Thanks, really, I really apreciate that

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u/obsertaries 5d ago

I didn't think there really were friends in international relations, just mutually beneficial arrangements.

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

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u/Bbnotsonice 5d ago

Russia is a full on terrorist state from the shit they've done to civilians🙄

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u/ratchclank 5d ago

Ay yo fuck Russia

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u/RyzRx 5d ago

Putin and his oligarch friends should really be caged and face trials in the Hague! The atrocities they committed is way beyond fixing.

I hope, however hard it might be, that some Russians who have the authority or power to do so, can at least stand up and make a decision to replace this regiment and come up with a better one!

It's for their country's own good!

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u/Independent_Pear_429 5d ago

This war really sucks

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u/Athelis 5d ago

Remember who started it.

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u/PumpkinManGuy 5d ago

Russia really sucks.

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