r/ussoccer • u/SmashingTables • Feb 01 '23
Do whatever it takes to get Flo
https://twitter.com/espnfc/status/1620867263669706754?s=46&t=hO170jRSOsvRPqi-6i9nzA194
u/smokegrasseatass69 Feb 01 '23
We need to start a N.I.L fund for him
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u/sallright Feb 01 '23
But does he have SEC speed?
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u/SuperSaiyanCockKnokr Feb 01 '23
The better he does, the less likely it becomes. Catch 22
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u/Mean_Foundation_5561 Feb 01 '23
Not really. Harry Kane still exists. He has to determine if he would rather sit on the bench behind Kane for every major international match for at least the next 4 years or be at the top of the depth chart for USMNT the moment he commits.
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u/jdelane1 Feb 01 '23
Yeah, a guy who bangs in goals for a mediocre Ligue 1 team might not impress the England setup the same way it does the US. He didn't exactly light it up in the Championship either.
Ivan Toney, for example, has 13 Premier League goals this year. Betting scandal notwithstanding, he might get priority over someone like Balogun. Same with Callum Wilson, Marcus Rashford, Danny Ings, etc.
The current goalscoring leader in the Championship (Chuba Akpom, 14 goals) plays for Boro where Balogun only managed 3 goals last year on loan. Sargent's output in the Champo is more impressive.
Still time to buy low and get him in.
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u/Mr_MacGrubber Feb 01 '23
He is young, not terribly surprising that someone can make a leap from 20 to 21. I mean at 19 Kane was in League 1 and scored 5 goals in 18 appearances. His 1st 2 seasons back at Tottenham he had 3 goals in 11 appearances then at age 21 had 21 goals in 34 games.
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Feb 01 '23 edited Feb 02 '23
[deleted]
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u/jdelane1 Feb 02 '23
Yeah I'm only trying to think from England's perspective, it's not necessarily my viewpoint. I'd give him a shot and try to cap tie him for sure. Big European teams play a lot of competitive games and don't have many throw-away friendlies or junk trophies, when do they get him in?
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u/eoin62 Feb 02 '23
I thought that too, but then (like the deranged soccer nerd I am), I looked up the the Euro squad registration rules.
Turns out that they are really lax for the qualifying rounds. You just have to submit the roster online the day before the competition. So theoretically, England could put Balogun on the roster for their game against Malta or North Macedonia in June of this year, even if they don't use him against Italy or Ukraine in March.
The final tournament registration rules are strict (similar to the WC rules), but those don't apply to the qualifying round.
There are also Nations league games, which are treated like pseudo-friendlies.
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u/amad97 Feb 02 '23
Southgate is seemingly allergic to players outside the Prem not named Bellingham. Which bodes well for us. Took him forever to call up Tomori when he was rock for a title winning Milan side.
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u/Off_Topic_Oswald Feb 01 '23
Nketiah and Toney are more important tbh. Toney might get passed because of gambling though.
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u/mojojojo1108 _ Feb 01 '23
Even besides Toney and Nketiah, Callum Wilson, Tammy, Watkins, Rashford, DCL (if he ever finds his form again) are all competitors too
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u/WelpSigh Feb 01 '23
a major issue for england is they actually have a lack of young striker options to replace kane down the line. they'd be foolish to not want balogun in their pool
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u/samuel_el_jackson Feb 01 '23
There was a 2024 Euro roster prediction on r/three lions and he was fourth at striker and people int the comments were doubting that saying he shouldn’t make the team. Of course his stock is rising but locking him down is probably the most important thing the program can do leading up to 2026.
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u/herkalurk Feb 01 '23
Didn't realize parent club was Arsenal. With as good as he's been maybe he'll compete for a place once he's back after the loan.
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u/VanDelay_Industry Feb 02 '23
Crossing my fingers but I’ll be shocked if he doesn’t choose England. I could be wrong but don’t think England has a ton of talent at his position near his age group.
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u/CommonSensePDX Feb 02 '23
It’s unlikely Balogun will be a preferred starter, or even 2nd choice, for England or Nigeria this cycle. USA is his only clear path to starting a game at the next WC.
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u/nbasuperstar40 Feb 02 '23
That's because both countries have world class strikers and we are in our worst strikers situation since the 80s.
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u/CommonSensePDX Feb 02 '23
Two points, I'm not sure you're accurately recalling where some of our starting strikers played, lots of MLS/Scandanivian league quality guys. We're currently sitting on a top striker from Turkey, Holland, a mid-level BL striker, and a good striker in Championship. It's far from dire.
2nd point: my response is about Balogun, and why USMNT provides a great opportunity. He's unlikely to even break into the English A team, let alone start a game for the English NT. Nigeria's NT is relatively stacked at ST. The USMNT has, BY FAR, the best path to get Balogun on a WC roster. He basically walks into the starting role, as of now.
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u/nbasuperstar40 Feb 06 '23
Yeah, for depth.
Landon Donovan and Clint Dempsey was our rocks. Even if we sucked with our B or C team. We always had them to rely on.
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u/CommonSensePDX Feb 06 '23
Both the players you mentioned spent a lionshare of their time as attacking wide forwards or support forward, VERY rarely as a true #9.
Sorry my guy, but fact of the matter, we've pretty much never had a striker pool entirely playing in top 10 Euro leagues. Having starters in Germany, Turkey, Holland and Championship UK is about as impressive as you've ever seen our striker pool.
I don't understand why folks just say shit on Reddit and despite actual data, just keep sticking to it. I've been following this program for 25 years, closely, this is as good as it's been. It was a fucking SHOCK to have starting quality forwards in Holland and Bundesliga left off the roster. That would've never happened in any other WC cycle.
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u/beef_boloney Feb 01 '23
Come back to this post and own me if i'm wrong but I think if we have a coach by the end of the year he's declaring for us. Doubly so if the coach is Gregg.
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u/caseinpoint77 Feb 01 '23
Would be nice to have a coach with an exceptional record with recruiting dual nats...
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u/ChewpRL Feb 01 '23
I'm sure his record of publicly shitting on his best players would help his recruiting going forward.
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u/WinsingtonIII Feb 01 '23
You can disagree with Gregg making a mistake in giving that anecdote while also acknowledging that his record with high profile dual nats like Dest, Musah, and Pepi has been very, very good. Multiple dual nats have come out and said that his conversations with them were part of the reason they committed to the US.
Gregg can be good at one thing and have made a mistake in another area.
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u/caseinpoint77 Feb 01 '23
Lol okay my biased guy
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u/ChewpRL Feb 01 '23
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u/caseinpoint77 Feb 01 '23
Perhaps there is some bias in my analysis, but nothing quite to the level of "shitting on his best players."
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u/Jhyphi Feb 02 '23
How could GGG have shit on his best players? Aren't the best players the ones that start?
(I'll see myself out now)
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u/eoin62 Feb 02 '23
Everyone knows that in US Soccer “best players” is an honor that can only be decided by the Supreme Council of Soccer Moms.
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u/EwingTheoryPotential Feb 01 '23
Is Flo his nickname somehow? Or am I misreading his first name
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u/SmashingTables Feb 01 '23
His nickname is Flo
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u/ProfessorPlum168 Feb 01 '23
I’m going to also say that 29 Diego = Balogun as well. Too much of a coincidence haha.
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u/eoin62 Feb 02 '23
I know that people say Balogun has a ton of competition to get on the England squad, but given the ages of England’s best central forwards, Balogun could compete for a spot for the 2024 Euros and the 2026 WC.
Figure they take 2-3 central strikers like they did in 2022 (Kane, Wilson + Rashford plays centrally a bit).
Kane is one for sure. Rashford is likely also in, but could be in as a winger, not a central player.
After that things get murky: Wilson will be older and could get bumped. Other recent options will also be older and haven’t always been healthy or in favor in the past. Balogun could legitimately be better than the young + prime options. His biggest competition is probably Nketiah, his teammate at Arsenal.
(Also, how insane is it that there is a world where Aresenal could play a front three of Balogun, Saka, and Nketiah AND all of them start/play for England in 2026).
Below is a list of Potential English Forwards for the 2026 WC (with ages as of 2026)
- I’m including the wider forwards here as well because they take up similar roster spots and Balogun can play in a wide role too.
- My knowledge of the English striker pool isn’t perfect so let me know if I’ve left out anyone obvious.
30+ in 2026
Harry Kane will be 33 in 2026. Makes the squad unless something shocking happens, but he won’t be in his prime anymore.
Callum Wilson will be 34 in 2026.
Ivan Toney has 1 call up, a betting scandal and will be 30 in 2026.
Patrick Bamford will be 33 and is only a fringe player for the 3 lions at this point.
Danny Ings will be 34 and only has 3 England caps in seven years.
Ollie Watkins will be 31 and has fallen out of the “dark horse” striker role after a brief run with the National team in 2021-22. Didn’t make the 2022 roster in his prime.
Sterling typically plays wider than Balogun, and will be 31.
Grealish is also a wide player and will be 31.
Under 30 in 2026
Eddie Nketiah (25 in 2026) ahead of Balogun at Arsenal now (in that he’s playing for the senior squad this season).
Tammy Abraham (29 in 2026), central forward, will be in his prime, has England caps, but got snubbed in 2022.
Dominic Calvert-Lewin (29 in 2026) central forward, will be in his prime, has England caps, but has injury problems.
Marcus Rashford (28 in 2026), established player will still be in his prime, but is more of a winger first traditionally.
Bukayo Saka (25 in 2026), but is more of a wide player.
Jadon Sancho (26 in 2026), winger, needs to get back to prior form to challenge for a spot.
Anthony Gordon (25 in 2026) winger, but very good and just got a move to Newcastle.
Non-Forward “Forwards”
Added this so I could point out that Foden and maybe someone like Eberechi Eze could take a forward spot in 2024 or 2026, even though they get called midfielders in most national team roster summaries.
Summary
England’s Striker pool is older at the top end. The best young English attackers other than Balogun and Nketiah are wide players, so not direct competition.
If Balogun keeps up this run of form and then gets some playing time at Arsenal next year (or another loan), he could play his way onto the 2024 euro roster for England.
He’s been patient so far and he has the time to remain patient over the next 12-18 months to see whether an England call up is likely. If he has to decide between a call up to England for the Euros and a call up to the US for the Copa America, I’m not sure he takes the US call up.
He will always have more competition to get a starting for England than he would for the US, but if he thinks he’s world class, maybe he wants that competition.
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u/patturnedtrick Feb 01 '23
Who here is willing to give Folarin Balogun a wet and sloppy blow job to get him to commit to USA?
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u/jamesey10 Feb 02 '23
besides being squeezed out on our soil, is there anything American about him? does he care about American soccer?
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u/CalligrapherNext3164 Feb 03 '23
Balogun lived in the US until he was 2 years old. He has family still in New York and the US. Last summer he vacationed in the US and spend a long time in NYC and Miami visiting a lot of places from his childhood and was posting all over instagram about his experiences. He looked really proud and happy. US fans ran into him and posted pics on social media hanging with his friends at restaurants.
He caption one of the photos as ‘Home’ with the US flag emoji.
This was not his first time returning to the US. He came when he was a younger boy and play in a Nike Invitational in Florida with the US youth team. At that time England wasn’t even on his radar. We called him first before they attempted to get him in their youth set up. All I’m saying is USSF have a relationship with him and his family going back. Why did he not come back to feature for the US after that, I’m not sure? Do we still have his ear? Probably, there are discussions we’re not privy to and USSF have tried to get him into camps but hasn’t been successful. He’s friends with a number of US players including Matt Turner, Weah, Bryant Reynolds, and his very good childhood friend from Arsenal youth Academy Yunus Musah. This summer Balogun will most likely play at the U21 Euros with England. They have a chance to cap-tie him in March with Euro 2024 qualifiers but will face Italy and Ukraine which are the two toughest teams and England will be forced to play their deep roster. Can’t see them giving a debut to a young prospect. The next window of opportunity will be in September they’ll play Ukraine and October will be Italy. They could cap him in the Ukraine game and then November vs Malta and North Macedonia. After that there are no more meaningful games until March 2024 with the Euro nations league qualifiers, which England will play until November (group stages) and March 2025 (Knockout), June 2025 (finals), and the big Euro 2024 tournament something he won’t feature in with all their front fire power.
2024 the US can offer him Olympics, and Copa America (most likely the latter) that will be huge. He will be facing big South American teams in the US under the bright lights. He will be the starting 9 and if we have a good run could be the start to something really big leading up to the World Cup. Many opportunities will come his way and he could be a star. At England he will still be waiting to get called in especially if England knows he’s already cap tied.
We have to be on his case right now into the 2023 U21 euros and full court press after that when he vacations most likely in the US. Call him in September and sealed the deal before England call him in to cap tie him vs Ukraine.
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u/RamandAu Feb 01 '23
The U21 Euros are this summer and I'd expect him to be on England roster. It wouldn't cap tie him but he'd need the one time switch.
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u/WinsingtonIII Feb 01 '23
If England are only offering him a U21 spot this summer that would honestly be a good thing for us. I suspect he will be getting a call up to their senior squad.
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u/RamandAu Feb 01 '23
I would honestly suspect he values the U21 Euros more than the Gold Cup as well.
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u/WinsingtonIII Feb 01 '23
Perhaps, though I could see England only offering him youth team status while we are offering him a senior spot being helpful for us.
If England offer him a role in the senior squad (which I think they will), he's almost certainly going to accept it.
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u/A_Coup_d_etat Feb 02 '23
The USMNT Senior squad doesn't play a meaningful game until the next World Cup 3+ years from now.
Look, he's young and players tend to be pretty stupid so he may decide to join the USMNT in the near future but it would make no sense;
If he was willing to play for the USA then he should've done that a year ago so he would've had some chance of making the 2022 World Cup squad.
Declaring now just gets him a few years of flying tens of thousands of miles to get hacked down in CONCACRAP games that have no glory.
COPA America has little cache in Europe and holding one in the USA makes it even weaker.
If I was him at this point I would wait 2 years to see how things progress in my career, the ENT and the USMNT.
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u/beef_boloney Feb 02 '23
For what it's worth he'd actually win some trophies with us. The Gold Cup may not come with much prestige but at least its a trophy he can hoist. England are three tournaments into their golden generation and still can't manage a Euro.
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Feb 02 '23 edited Feb 02 '23
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u/beef_boloney Feb 02 '23
I guess what I meant is this current England generation was the closest they’ve gotten to a trophy and they still haven’t gotten it. Their actual golden generation didn’t do it either. They have no Euros and one World Cup from a generation that’s damn near dead. Balogun may be getting hard fouls on shitty pitches with us, but he’ll also get to do his international games in the Caribbean and most likely will win a few trophies in his career. He could do worse.
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Feb 02 '23 edited Feb 02 '23
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u/beef_boloney Feb 02 '23
I agree for the most part, but I do think the workplace environment plays a bigger role than fans give credit to. Musah and Dest play for us because they're starters, but they also very obviously love the guys they work with. Weston probably could have held out for a better club than Leeds, but he's very clearly excited to be working with Tyler and Brendan. On the other side of this, there are so many guys who won't get England calls but could play for Jamaica but won't because its a mess of an organization to work with. So I guess what I mean to see is if we get Balogun, yes, it probably is because he's going to be starting for us sooner than for England but I think Musah, Weah, and our organization will be bigger factors than fans will give credit to.
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u/StaticNegative Feb 02 '23
Not after the season he is having. If he isn't on the main squad he will probably make the switch to the good guys. That would be a massive mistake by England. He knows he would be the immediate starting striker for the USA.
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u/RamandAu Feb 02 '23
Doesn't matter if he'd be the starting striker now if his goal is to play in the World Cup which is in 3 years. There's not really a benefit to him making this summer the deadline for him deciding. He can still go to the U21 Euros and then still have his options open. If he accepts a senior call-up from either then that's it.
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u/platyhooks Feb 01 '23
People posting his highlights in this sub like it's a sure thing. I would suggest tempering expectations greatly.
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u/archasaurus Feb 01 '23
I don’t think anyone thinks that it’s a sure thing
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u/platyhooks Feb 01 '23
I read comments in this sub that something as simple as emojis on social medial posts indicate he is switching. Just a slippery slope between wanting it to be true and it actually being true.
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u/archasaurus Feb 01 '23
That sounds like bants, but I also wouldn’t put it past people on the internet to have an irrational take either. I would like to believe the vast majority of people are grounded.
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u/Mr_MacGrubber Feb 01 '23
Of course he’s not a sure thing, but he’s leading the league in scoring. It’s not like it’s some low quality league.
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u/platyhooks Feb 01 '23 edited Feb 01 '23
Of course he’s not a sure thing, but he’s leading the league in scoring. It’s not like it’s some low quality league.
I'm talking about joining the USMNT not his quality as a player.
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u/gd8181 Feb 01 '23
Great, our sporting director and senior mens team coach will be right on that!