r/technology • u/thebelsnickle1991 • Dec 11 '22 • 1 1 1 3 4 3 1 1 2 4 6
Neuralink killed 1,500 animals in four years; Now under trial for animal cruelty: Report Businesshttps://me.mashable.com/tech/22724/elon-musks-neuralink-killed-1500-animals-in-four-years-now-under-trial-for-animal-cruelty-report
u/lbgholm Dec 11 '22 •
Saying the lab doesn’t keep statistics on how many animals are tested……..what kinda back alley black market lab is this?
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u/Beast_of_Bladenboro Dec 12 '22
They have those records, they're just dodging the FDA, and ethics boards.→ More replies (11)
u/_Dague_ Dec 12 '22
That's Elons excuse for everything when he misses a deadline.
"It's not MY fault I overestimated my teams ability to get it to market! That darn FDA is getting in the way! Another 5000 monkeys and we'll get it."
u/last_ent Dec 11 '22
Didn't he say that Human testing is going to start soon?
That should be fun
u/SuchSuggestion Dec 11 '22
yeah he can go first
u/LahmiaTheVampire Dec 11 '22
Or all his fanboys. Surely they’d have complete faith on their god?
u/AmusingMusing7 Dec 11 '22 •
Elon fanboys: “Wokeness is liberal mind control!”
Literally Elon: “So here’s my literal mind control device.”
Elon fanboys: “FUCKING AWESOME!!!”
u/JEveryman Dec 12 '22 •
In their defense being woke will probably never be an issue for them again after they get their musk chip.→ More replies (15)
u/Assortedpez Dec 12 '22
‘Elon Musk Chip’ needs to become a Ben and Jerry’s flavor soon.
u/Ill_Salamander7488 Dec 12 '22 •
When you open the container it’s just full of hot air.→ More replies (1)→ More replies (13)
u/KingOfCatProm Dec 12 '22
It would cost $8.
Dec 12 '22
$11 with Apple Pay.→ More replies (1)→ More replies (6)
u/SoyMurcielago Dec 12 '22
Has a blue check on ye lid
u/flyingcanuck Dec 12 '22
Not sure if intentional 😅
u/saxguy9345 Dec 12 '22
It was a late registration
u/Rogahar Dec 12 '22 edited Dec 12 '22 •
Yeah I'm totally down to put a chip in my brain controlled by the same guy who permabans people from Twitter for lightly criticizing him.
Edit: Lmao @ all the Elon simps in the replies. He's not invented shit - he just buys companies from other people with his mommy and daddy's emerald mine money, lets them do all the work, then takes the credit. He's a con man and you're in too deep to admit he's conned you too.
u/2Mains Dec 12 '22
I’m chipped and my fully self-driving mode no longer works. Now I need a wheelchair.→ More replies (1)
u/Gnomercy86 Dec 12 '22
Didnt spring for the $300 a month subscription?
u/calfmonster Dec 12 '22
99 a month for self-heating metabolism
u/Reasonable-Bad1034 Dec 12 '22
"Fragile Narcissist Buys Criticism Factory" Best Tweet Ever, can't find tweet author ¯_(⊙_ʖ⊙)_/¯→ More replies (72)
u/LowLIFO Dec 12 '22
Now he can permaban you from life!→ More replies (2)
u/Dudeman-Jack Dec 12 '22
Can you imagine?? Like do you get put into a coma if you forget to update your credit card info and miss a monthly payment→ More replies (8)
u/nuts4sale Dec 12 '22
For an example, see: Superior Iron Man, vol 1 and 2. I’m taking the piss on Elon, not you, because homie really looks like he’s trying to do some Extremis shit here→ More replies (144)
u/pixelprophet Dec 12 '22
Rubes: Fauci is tracking us with a Vaccine and 5G with Bill gates that will roll back the genetics of pure bloods! Beware the Demoncrats satanical cabal with Mickey Mouse!
Elon: I made it so you can't blink without seeing ads from my brain chips!
Rubes; Yay!→ More replies (4)
u/shutts67 Dec 12 '22
One of my former co-workers wouldn't get the vaccine because there was a microchip in it, but he wants the neurolink
u/colorcorrection Dec 12 '22
Is it surprising, though? These are the same people that confidently typed 'I ain't gettin no vaccine, they're gonna track me with nicroships!' onto social media that tracks their web history on a tracking device they pay monthly to keep in service.→ More replies (2)
u/Onimaru1984 Dec 12 '22
I prefer the picket line person with the “Keep Your Gov’t Hands Off My Medicare” sign.→ More replies (1)
u/gateguard64 Dec 12 '22 edited Dec 12 '22
The one thing about co-workers like this, is that they can't keep their stupid shit to themselves. It really is the same thinking I have about people that lose their shit on airplanes. How can you not sit still for six to eight hours quietly without being a major pain in the ass to others. How?? How do you go through the world living a disruptor life?→ More replies (23)→ More replies (9)
u/Frequent-Designer-61 Dec 12 '22
The thing that always surprised me about the microchip idea was honestly how long did they think a microchip could be powered and survive in the body. Ok maybe we can power them off the body electrical current but surely a tiny microchip small enough for a needle won’t last long in the body.→ More replies (2)→ More replies (53)
u/MutedMessage8 Dec 11 '22
The people who were chucking their own kids in front of Teslas probably wouldn’t mind one.→ More replies (5)
u/testedonsheep Dec 11 '22
lol considering his recent behavior, he might be the first human test subject already.→ More replies (2)
u/iMissTheOldInternet Dec 12 '22
His only problem is late onset finding out→ More replies (1)→ More replies (76)
u/Cynical_Cabinet Dec 11 '22
Careful, that's how you get Doc Ock.→ More replies (4)
u/SpaceStethoscope Dec 11 '22 •
Doc Ock is a genius scientist, not a conman.
u/Cynical_Cabinet Dec 11 '22
Doctor Otto Octavious is a genius scientist.
Doc Ock is a microchip that hijacked Doctor Otto Octavious's body.→ More replies (1)
u/KHSebastian Dec 12 '22
Only in the movie version. In the comics, a nuclear accident fused the arms to him, but the craziness is all him / maybe some kind of psychosis from the accident, but that is unconfirmed in universe (or at least it was as of the end of the second run of Superior Spider-Man)→ More replies (1)→ More replies (5)
u/WheresMyEtherElon Dec 11 '22
He was also the Superior Spider-Man, the best spider-man.→ More replies (6)
Dec 12 '22
Well, yeah. It's right there in his name.
u/Biscuitsandgravy101 Dec 11 '22
He also said we'd be on Mars already. Dude is full of shit and overflowing.
Dec 12 '22
He also said 90% of your road miles in a Tesla would be on autopilot in 18 months. He said that in 2014. And 2015, and 2016, and 2017, and 2018, and 2019, and 2020, and 2021....
I dunno about you but I'm starting to think this guy's full of shit....
u/jakster840 Dec 12 '22 edited Dec 12 '22
Also said that the Tesla semi would beat a diesel truck and launch in 2017 or 2018. Then 2019. Then 2020. Then 2021.
Remember when he held an event in front a suburban home in 2016 or 2017 and said that the house was being powered by working solar panel roof tiles? Those weren't working at all. That product was fake. Hell, the whole Solar City debacle is an event in and of itself. This is just a peice of it.→ More replies (2)
u/The_Buko Dec 12 '22
I forgot about Solar City! I saw an ad for “Sun City” today and thought it sounded awfully familiar. Wow, I was so enamored back then..→ More replies (3)→ More replies (42)
u/RangerFan80 Dec 12 '22
He used to be full of shit.
He still is but he used to, too.→ More replies (2)
u/ILoveRegenHealth Dec 12 '22
Yo we do not need to bring paper into this shitty transaction→ More replies (1)→ More replies (30)
u/molrobocop Dec 11 '22
Right. He says a lot of things. 99% is bullshit. See "full self driving." Cybertruck....→ More replies (9)
u/campionesidd Dec 11 '22
It’s not just bullshit, it’s fraud. He’s pumped TSLA stock using these BS claims and used the capital raise to pay off debt etc. The FBI needs to prosecute him for securities fraud ASAP.→ More replies (18)
u/JaggedMetalOs Dec 11 '22
He’s pumped TSLA stock using these BS claims and used the capital raise to pay off debt etc
He used his pumped stock to buy Twitter.
Let that sink in...→ More replies (10)
u/SvensonIV Dec 12 '22
At least it seems like he is running that to the ground. Unfortunately all the employees are the victims. I hope everyone can find a job at a place with conditions which are better.→ More replies (2)
u/Phillip_Lipton Dec 11 '22
Probably criminals. Like what they did in Holmesburg.
He got caught, it wasn't even prosecuted. They just dissolved the program.
Absolutely still happens.→ More replies (12)
u/windowdrawings Dec 12 '22
My GOD that was a disturbing read. I somehow wasn't aware of that, despite having read up on similar smaller operations. Made me sick to read, but important to know. Thank you.→ More replies (4)→ More replies (109)
u/rearwindowpup Dec 11 '22
Right after he gets that hyperloop going Im sure→ More replies (4)
u/DigitalPsych Dec 11 '22 edited Dec 11 '22 •
I've worked in neuroscience and did implant surgeries... 1500 animals in four years is so fucking crazy.
Like... It really makes no sense. When did they have time to develop the technology if they were constantly implanting on animals? How much were they fucking up the surgeries? What the hell did they need so many animals for?
I would understand (barely) if it was all mice and they were making some new virus or opsin but fucking hell...
Edit: mice not nice
u/redmagistrate50 Dec 11 '22
Apparently 88 deaths were simple human error, attempting to implant a device that was too large for the subject.
u/BrooklynNeinNein_ Dec 11 '22 •
Keep in mind these apes are very closely related to us and think and feel quite similarly as us. Imagine an technologically more developed over Lord coming to you, putting you in a sterile cage, implementing a thing into your brain and casually killing you in the process. That's their reality
u/CasualEveryday Dec 11 '22 •
If you wouldn't do it to a 5 year old, you shouldn't do it to an ape. And if you would do it to a 5 year old, I think we should use you for medical experiments instead.
u/Witlyjack Dec 11 '22 •
Everyone always picks on the poor sadists.
u/KKlear Dec 11 '22
Won't somebody think of the children-killers!→ More replies (28)→ More replies (14)
u/whogivesashirtdotca Dec 11 '22
Meanwhile the masochists are looking on, jealous and lonely.→ More replies (6)
u/LAVATORR Dec 11 '22
Okay, but if I do medical experiments on myself, can I trade a five year-old for a monkey?
Followup does it have to be mine
Dec 12 '22
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u/Geno- Dec 12 '22
In sorta of the opinion it is sometimes necessary to test on animals, but this seems to be just wreckless→ More replies (9)
u/sir-winkles2 Dec 11 '22
the animals that the commenter above you is referring to were pigs, but your point still stands→ More replies (1)
u/DharmaPolice Dec 11 '22
Given we kill millions of pigs every year for food, I think that distinction does make quite a large difference.
u/sobanz Dec 11 '22
and castrate every single male pig without anesthesia
Dec 11 '22
We killed 1,348,541,419 pigs in 2019. I can’t find data for 2021-2022 but I’d imagine it’s either gone up or stayed similar. You’re not wrong. But the number is closer to billions every year for food.
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u/TofeeDodger Dec 11 '22
millions with a b→ More replies (2)→ More replies (113)
u/Cheaptat Dec 11 '22
And ours, we’re just on the evil overlord side. But not the evil overlord lab worker - we’re the people in the background world who knows it’s happening and not only do we not to anything about it; we barely even think about it at all.→ More replies (32)→ More replies (24)
u/MakeAmericaSwolAgain Dec 11 '22
10% or less is an acceptable number for surgical error according to animal welfare and IACUC standards. Not trying to be an apologist for him, but I worked in animal research. My numbers were lower than that in mice.→ More replies (1)
u/redmagistrate50 Dec 11 '22
280 pigs is the maximum number they could have based on their reported animal numbers, 86 of those 88 deaths by surgical error were pigs. 25 for the implants being too big.
So it's a 30% rate for pigs by the numbers provided. We're nearly hitting 10% with just the surgeon trying to hammer the wrong device into the squishy grey bit.
And I understand you're not trying to be an apologist for him, animal testing is a deeply contentious and nuanced issue. Musk's philosophy of everything now, who cares about safety is quietly pissing on the ethics and welfare standards people have worked so hard to establish.→ More replies (26)
u/GreatMadWombat Dec 12 '22
Yeah. Like....I can understand animal testing under controlled, scientific circumstances. According to the article, Neuralink doesn't keep precise statistics on animal death.
I do not think a "IDK how many animals exactly we killed" ethos can ever be viewed as "scientific".→ More replies (3)
u/pmatdacat Dec 12 '22
Seems less like a scientific experiments and more like a rapid prototyping phase.→ More replies (2)
u/Jennypjd Dec 11 '22
I thought you needed approval for animal experimentation by showing your methods beforehand? How did they f up so bad?→ More replies (4)
u/sreesid Dec 11 '22
I know how strict the institutional guidelines at research Universities are. You have to justify every experiment, and why you absolutely need an animal. Every single thing you are going to do has to be approved, to ensure that they don't suffer. All the animals from all the labs, are kept in one central location. They are monitored every day by independent observers and caretakers. You fuck up once, or deviate from the approved protocol, your lab loses the ability to work with animals for good. These are just for working with mice. If the institution has the ability to work with primates, the guidelines are about 100x harder.
I don't know what kind of morons are working at neuralink to kill 1500 animals. That's insane. They should shut it down immediately.
u/norml329 Dec 12 '22
"Because the company does not keep precise statistics on the number of animals tested and killed, the sources described that number as an approximate estimate."
Direct quote from the article..... What the flying fuck? If we lost a mouse all hell would reign down. Do these guys not have an IACUC?→ More replies (3)
u/Indemnity4 Dec 12 '22 edited Dec 12 '22
Neuralink does it's experiments in house. Previously they did them in partnership with UC Davis and subsequent investigations cleared that part of the research.
Private companies don't have to answer to an ethics board, unlike an academic institution. Most of the ethics approval you write are about complying with regulations for Federal funding, not legal requirements. To stretch it even further, if your institution receives even a single dollar in Federal funding, any other non-Federal funding experiments that use the facility must also follow the regulations.
Neuralink as a private company doesn't need to follow the Federal funding regulations for animal welfare and ethics approval. It is legally clear if they only experiment on animals excluded by the Animal Welfare Act. They can kill as many rats, mice, birds, fish, and reptiles as they want with no consequence.
At worst, they are required to write up a research proposal with some rules in advance. So long as they stick to those rules, it doesn't matter how much input goes into that logarithm, only that the algorithm is followed. Failures to follow those initial rules typically only result in an angry letter to make changes to the rules.
So far it appears of the 1500 animals, majority were rats and mice. A total of 280 sheep, pigs and monkeys were killed which is what will be investigated but only to ensure the Animal Welfare Act was not breached.→ More replies (1)
u/Celesmeh Dec 12 '22
I mean I hear what you're saying but once you submit an IND or submit things to the FDA in general there's bound to be questions and you need to have those records available. And if those records look suspicious the FDA isn't going to do s*** with you. They're really strict and they've only gotten stricter over the past 10 years after the Pfizer debacle→ More replies (3)→ More replies (9)
u/moronicuniform Dec 11 '22
My guess is that they're generally competent but put under incredible pressure to get results NOW by a billionaire with zero management skills who needs his ego massaged and doesn't take no for an answer→ More replies (15)
u/captainwacky91 Dec 11 '22
Jesus Christ, was Elon trying to employ that "fail hard" philosophy from SpaceX to the FUCKING MEDICAL INDUSTRY?
u/DigitalPsych Dec 11 '22
Honestly, it looks like it.→ More replies (9)
u/Halt-CatchFire Dec 11 '22
The silicon valley ethos is "Move fast and break things", which sucks but at least they're not DEVELOPING MEDICAL TECHNOLOGY
u/Erestyn Dec 12 '22
To be fair, Elon wasn't explicitly told that the Portal games included a satirical take on patient healthcare during experiments, so you can see why he'd make the mistake.→ More replies (4)
u/ask_about_poop_book Dec 12 '22
Except for Theranos…
u/Dienikes Dec 12 '22
Theranos wasn't developing medical technology either→ More replies (1)
u/PenitentAnomaly Dec 11 '22 •
It makes perfect sense if you are an ego driven tech billionaire that tries to apply the agile workflow and start up cycle logic to neuroscience.
u/Pherusa Dec 11 '22
Testing in production. It's the agile way.→ More replies (3)
u/WheresMyEtherElon Dec 11 '22
SSH' ing into the brain, ninja style.
u/Lord_Derp_The_2nd Dec 11 '22
It's fine guys, just put a ticket in the backlog. "As a user, I don't wanna fucking die"
u/dublem Dec 11 '22
You sound like the perfect candidate for our "endless torture by manmade horrors beyond our understanding" trial!→ More replies (3)
u/Fabulous-Bluebird420 Dec 11 '22
watch them rollout a glorified implanted airpod that works using speech because thoughts were too hard to implement. it will probably aslo contain a bug where some users suffer of unexpected seizures or some shit
u/SheerDumbLuck Dec 11 '22
Hmm.. looks like it only impacts a single user and there's really no definitive proof that this issue would supercede the benefits for everyone. Low priority.→ More replies (11)
u/refactdroid Dec 11 '22
closed: wontfix -> everyone's gonna die eventually→ More replies (26)
u/LotharVonPittinsberg Dec 11 '22
He's even shitty as a tech startup billionaire. WTF is the bio science version of "write X lines of code per week or you are fired"?→ More replies (6)
u/DrBoomkin Dec 11 '22
write X lines of code per week or you are fired
Isn't it obvious? "Implant X devices into animals per week or you are fired!"→ More replies (1)
u/KentuckyDobro Dec 11 '22
Be interesting to know what outcomes were achieved if any.→ More replies (68)
Dec 11 '22 edited Jan 22 '23
[removed] — view removed comment→ More replies (10)
u/DigitalPsych Dec 11 '22
DBS wouldn't be the goal here though. My electrons were in the micrometer range as I recall for cortical recordings (obviously not the same issues).
Also, i thought DBS electrodes needs to be thicker for the amount of current that needs to be supplied.→ More replies (8)→ More replies (376)
u/ChariotOfFire Dec 11 '22
Yes, they were mostly mice.
Records indicate that since 2018, the company has killed almost 1,500 animals, including more than 280 sheep, pigs, and monkeys.→ More replies (16)
Dec 11 '22 edited Jan 01 '23 •
u/RectalSpawn Dec 11 '22
Blue team bad!→ More replies (7)
u/KingofMadCows Dec 12 '22
Most liberals don't even like Bill Gates. People still remember when he was a ruthless CEO who violated antitrust laws. They're also critical of his push for charter schools and his acquisition of farmlands. Plus they're getting more skeptical of his charities.→ More replies (32)→ More replies (54)
u/undyinrage Dec 11 '22
Painfully accurate. I hate partisan politics.→ More replies (10)
u/jthoff10 Dec 11 '22
The guy that spent $44B to troll the left is probably not the dude I want putting shit in peoples brains.
Dec 11 '22 •
Execute Order 66.
u/well_damm Dec 11 '22
For a small price of 11.99 monthly !
Dec 11 '22
Updating Software... can't move body for 3 hours.→ More replies (12)
u/LAVATORR Dec 11 '22
Hello I am Stephen King, here to negotiate prices with you for some reason
Dec 11 '22
"Negotiate"? Aren't you a kind one. King basically dick-slapped Musk into accepting a maximum of 60% less revenue.→ More replies (5)
u/codexcdm Dec 11 '22
TBH I'd probably trust King more than Muskrat....
u/Aoirann Dec 12 '22
King managed to quit cocaine and alcohol, Musk can't even quit social media.→ More replies (7)
u/BadUsername_Numbers Dec 11 '22
You can enable the "stairs-walking" package for only 200 USD annually!
u/DoctorRisen Dec 11 '22
“Yes my lord.”
Tesla car proceeds to run over a child.→ More replies (15)
u/Notarussianbot2020 Dec 11 '22
I thought order 66 was supposed to change their behavior?→ More replies (6)
u/InvisibleBlueRobot Dec 11 '22
Those children won't disagree with Musk now that they've been run over. "behavioral change" is a success" /s→ More replies (2)
u/dragonmp93 Dec 11 '22
Endorsed by the Judge Rotenberg Educational Center→ More replies (1)
u/EasterBunnyArt Dec 11 '22
In this case your brain will have a stroke or brain bleed…→ More replies (5)→ More replies (29)
u/user_8804 Dec 11 '22
Good soldiers follow orders→ More replies (5)
u/reddititty69 Dec 11 '22
“Putting shit in people’s brains” - the mission statement for both Twitter and Neuralink.→ More replies (2)
u/whogivesashirtdotca Dec 11 '22
Can someone explain to me what the point of the Neuralink implant is? I tried looking it up the other week and just got a bunch of adspeak and technobabble results.→ More replies (14)
u/JingleJangleJin Dec 11 '22
Best case scenario we can have locked-in patients, those conscious but unable to move or speak, using their brains to interface with a communication device.
There would naturally be a lot of spin off technology, but that's the immediate goal.→ More replies (29)
u/Lumpyyyyy Dec 11 '22
Normally I’d say the CEO isn’t the one actually putting shit in animals brains, but with this guy, you never know.
u/QuickBricksOfficial Dec 11 '22
It is the CEO who orders continuing after the deaths start mounting→ More replies (14)→ More replies (4)
u/SaiyanPrinceAbubu Dec 11 '22
Please reply with the top ten times you killed animals by inserting a chip into their brain to keep your job→ More replies (1)→ More replies (224)
u/phdoofus Dec 11 '22
Pretty sure no one wants to get in to that Mars space ship of his either. IF they got there'd it'd be like 'Now that we're here we need to tell your about our subscription pricing model'
u/be-like-water-2022 Dec 11 '22
Guy literally told "we will build society on Mars without government regulations '
u/SgtDoughnut Dec 11 '22
He openly admitted that he wanted people to get loans to get out there, meaning they are basically his slaves on arrival.
Dec 11 '22
u/whogivesashirtdotca Dec 11 '22
Indentured servitude. Unbelievable. He wants to be a 17th century colonial landowner.
u/fdesouche Dec 12 '22
What view of the world do you expect from an extremely wealthy white South-African who enjoyed all the privileges of a very segregated society ?
u/UnorignalUser Dec 11 '22
He's a south african who's family owned mines during the apartheid era.
Slavery isn't a bug, it's the whole damned point.
u/GenericFatGuy Dec 11 '22
Born too late to exploit new world colonialism, so now he wants to do it on Mars.→ More replies (2)
u/Rheactron Dec 11 '22
Like father, like son→ More replies (21)
u/JediCheese Dec 11 '22
Indentured Servants is the phrase that you are looking for→ More replies (1)
u/Gcarsk Dec 11 '22 edited Dec 11 '22
That is slavery.
Are you thinking of chattel slavery? That is a specific form of slavery in which people are bought and sold to others, and legally becomes the personal property of an owner (this was the most common form of slavery used in the Americas, but definitely not the only kind).
Yes, bonded labor (ie indentured servitude, debt bondage, etc) isn't chattel slavery. But it is slavery.→ More replies (68)→ More replies (18)
u/sl236 Dec 11 '22 edited Dec 11 '22
I don't see the slave thing working, tbh.
If the colony is dependent on supplies from Earth, nothing happening there is worth the costs of getting people and stuff there or back; the moment it is not, however, there is no way to compel it to repay investments that would be worth the payment.
Colonies achieving self-sufficiency, rebelling over refusing to send payment back home, and declaring independence has been a science fiction staple for decades, actual history in a large variety of places on earth, and also literally the founding myth of the USA. Historical colonialism was profitable for its proponents from the get-go in large sections of the world because there were indigenous populations to plunder, but this will not be a factor on Mars.
It's unclear quite what anyone thinks the question marks between "send colonists to Mars" and "profit" might look like.
u/metalkhaos Dec 11 '22
Colonies achieving self-sufficiency, rebelling over refusing to send payment back home, and declaring independence has been a science fiction staple for decades, actual history in a large variety of places on earth, and also literally the founding myth of the USA.
Can we just skip all of this and have Gundams already?→ More replies (1)→ More replies (12)
u/Sentazar Dec 11 '22
With it being tesla im guessing theyd remotely turn off your oxygen or someshit.
"To unlock the oxygen package, please deposit 1500 dollars"→ More replies (2)
u/TheAnalogKoala Dec 11 '22
Fuck. Musk is Cohagan.→ More replies (12)
u/EugenGoldstein Dec 11 '22
Rapture but in space→ More replies (4)
u/lutzilla Dec 11 '22
I wonder which of Musk’s 10 illegitimate children will be the one to bash his head in with a golf club
u/mikey_likes_it______ Dec 11 '22
The one with the weirdest name.→ More replies (2)→ More replies (2)
u/KKlear Dec 11 '22
If only they would kindly do it already.→ More replies (27)
u/HeavyMetalHero Dec 11 '22
Last I checked, the dude all but admitted "yeah, most of you will be slaves, but hey, everyone will be working hard up there!" and his little boys are still wild with fervor to join him.→ More replies (6)
u/FormicaB Dec 11 '22
It seems like such a great deal! You get a one way ticket to live and work in a small dome dependent on the supplies he will send from earth while you work on his science experiments or mine ore or whatever the hell it is he has planned for the colonists.
It will be like that one Philip K. Dick novel where the mars colonists just take drugs and play a table top version of the Sims to keep from going crazy.→ More replies (3)
u/Designer_Curve Dec 11 '22 edited Dec 11 '22 •
People who are cruel to animals are cruel to humans without second thought. It’s well documented.
You wouldn't think saying ‘cruelty = bad’ would be such a triggering statement to people, and most of these replies don’t warrant any attention or response, but I’ll clarify.
I know people in the research community who have to perform humane kills while completing their work. They describe the conflict of emotions they feel knowing that they are doing important work while also knowing they are doing everything they can to be humane. They describe the reverence of knowing they are the last thing this living creature will see. This is because it takes a human toll. Even killing things like mice or small birds has a mental effect. These people are not abusive psychos, they have real human feelings and responses that inform their actions and work. In a more severe scenario, I went to a large state undergrad with a chimp lab that had some student employees, one of them being my upstairs neighbor. He ended up having a mental breakdown and we found out after the police came looking for him when he disappeared for a month and was found living in the woods in a distressed state. Any of these people understand the necessity of the work they are doing but they understand the toll, and so they don’t do things without reason or purpose or without humane thought typically because of this.
Killing more than is necessary bc you have a deadline to hit is the definition of maniacal cruelty, and we already see evidence of the real world impact of this. Mass layoffs, sanctioned cruelty and attacks, and this is the guy people want to entrust their lives to on a trip to Mars? You really think this guy wouldn't cut off life support to half the pods to ensure some type of mission metric only clear to him without a second thought?
Lol at the red herrings. I’ve been defending against animal cruelty for 20+ years, your ‘hitler was a vegan’ anecdote is cute but stupid, and entirely unoriginal.
To those who don’t understand how you can consume meat and not be cruel or strive for humane practices, I recommend the documentary ‘eating animals.’
And to those of you defending the cruelty, well, we already know that at least half the people in this country are scary crazy, so no surprises there.
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Dec 11 '22 edited Jan 12 '23
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u/tdieckman Dec 11 '22 •
I was never a fanboy, but thought the guy had some vision for doing good things. My point of realizing he was a bad guy was when those kids were stranded in the flooded cave in Thailand and he quickly developed a small submersible that he wanted them to use. They said no thanks and they got the caver to get the boys out. So Musk tweeted that the guy was a pedo without any evidence of it because he got all butt hurt about not being able to be the hero.
u/BanillaJoe Dec 11 '22
Word for word that’s how I feel about him as well.
u/Mor_Tearach Dec 11 '22
Right. In fact when he first brought up the sub I just thought " Well that could work " without thinking " Wow Elon us a hero! " Then he got his feeling ( singular ) hurt, when children were saved ? I thought " OH he's a douch ".
u/glowinggoo Dec 12 '22
They didn't use it because it couldn't work. There were extensive discussions about this realtime in Thailand, that the caves involved had too many tight squeezes, that it contains too many twists and turns for the sub. Also, by the time the sub got here, they'd already found the children and made plans for rescue IIRC.→ More replies (1)
u/dododididada Dec 12 '22
They also needed to rescue multiple boys at a time. The cave flooded dramatically as they got the last boys out, and if had taken any longer, the rescue would have no longer been possible. No time to wait for one submarine to rescue the boys one by one.
u/CesareSmith Dec 12 '22
The sub not being able to go more than 20 metres in the cave kind of makes that moot.
u/scawtsauce Dec 12 '22
pretty sure they didn't use it because it couldn't work.
u/proticale Dec 12 '22
When you put it this way it sounds even worse, if he could he would have gotten more people trapped down there.→ More replies (3)
u/StaleCanole Dec 12 '22
It didn’t end there either. Elon went on to hire a private investigator to dig up this guys life in an attempt to drag it through the mud.→ More replies (4)
u/TheIndyCity Dec 11 '22
He’s simply a douche. Tax the fuck out of him and everyone else in his class.
u/mothtoalamp Dec 11 '22 edited Dec 12 '22 •
A similar point for me. A decade ago I saw his businesses as major disruptions to entrenched and corrupt industries. Tesla was improving the auto industry. SpaceX was improving aerospace. Starlink was improving telecom. In each of these, Elon's businesses were purported to be successful and doing a significant public good. Elon wasn't really opening his mouth much about anything besides the basics of the businesses. Finally, a man who came from money and did something good with it for once.
Then came the superhero complex. Hyperloop, Boring, the Thailand submersible. Suddenly Elon has to be in charge of every good thing in the world. Each of those things has to be exciting, revolutionary... marketable. Public good be damned. And Elon started to talk. He was always a shitty person, and some of the signs were there, but he'd hid it well enough. Turns out shitty human beings can do a really good job of pretending to be good ones, if they keep their mouths shut and do an ostensibly good thing here and there.
My disdain is for Elon, not the first businesses. I still have hope for Tesla/SpaceX/Starlink, particularly the hope that a different, decent human being comes in and takes charge, but it's declined heavily. They were great ideas in theory.
People who defend Elon in the current day have no interest in the good that was done in the past. They instead see someone like Trump, who gives them an excuse to keep their ignorance and bigotry.
u/N8CCRG Dec 11 '22
This was the one for me. As a physicist who has used vacuum systems, this should never have left the marijuana filled room it was thought up in. There is no engineering we will ever make that could allow for train-sized evacuated tubes, hundreds of miles long, being repeatedly opened and closed to atmosphere to allow trains to enter and exit out of, while somehow magically maintaining their vacuum. And that's not even considering the whole "You've got living people in there and need to have plans for emergencies" and this was stupider than those solar roadways things.
And I'll probably still get morons replying to this comment trying to defend it.
u/CouchWizard Dec 11 '22
The fact that they have schools competing to develope it, unironically, and that it has gotten federal funding, and that it delayed CAs rail system is mind boggling. Anyone with a mild grasp of physics, engineering, or logistics could see it as a bad idea and it never should have made it past a napkin drawing
u/Bobby_Marks2 Dec 11 '22
That's the whole point of Hyperloop though. Guy who owns an enormous share of a company that badly needs every transporation infrastructure dollar the government is willing to spend (Tesla), also happens to own a pie-in-the-sky company that conveniently swoops in and out-hypes any other major transportation projects the government might consider funding.
Hyperloop exists to poison major public transportation initiatives, because Tesla needs EVs to be the future.
u/gouom Dec 12 '22
“What we need is some kind of ‘hype loop’…”
u/Bagelson Dec 11 '22
that it delayed CAs rail system is mind boggling
The conspiracy theorist in me whispers that the hyperloop was just a ploy to derail public transport development, propping up the automotive industry - and by extension Tesla. But Hanlon's Razor and all that...
u/DeletedByAuthor Dec 12 '22
Wasnt that well established..? Didnt elon confirm this?→ More replies (4)→ More replies (13)
u/I_love_Con_Air Dec 11 '22 edited Dec 12 '22
I love that it just became tunnels. What a technological achievement! A bloody tunnel.
He hates public transport so I think Hyperloop was a holding maneuver so he could sell more Teslas whilst delaying the rail systems.
u/Shacky_Rustleford Dec 11 '22
Iirc he has explicitly stated that hyperloop was a ploy to shut down public transit plans→ More replies (1)→ More replies (10)
u/Ignorad Dec 11 '22
To add perspective: The "good" businesses were ones he bought into so that he could take credit for them, while driving down quality with his idiotic ideas. Like at Tesla he insisted on non-automotive grade touchscreens that can't survive in heat or extreme cold. In the factories he removed safety features because he hates yellow.
His primary contributions at Tesla were lying to get massive government subsidies, and lying to the public to boost the stock price.
Twitter is his first job where he's completely in charge without anyone able to override his idiocy and fickle nature, and it's amazing how poorly it's going.→ More replies (1)
u/HayleyTheLesbJesus Dec 11 '22
The cherry on top of all of this was him lying about that physics degree.
This is a stupid man with a stupidly big amount of money and [sadly] power.
And his stupid followers.
Maybe his obsession with neuralink is so he can finally improve his own intelligence through a brain chip?→ More replies (1)
u/lordeddardstark Dec 11 '22
His recent post attacked Fauci. I swear he's one step away from denying climate change just to pander to the right.→ More replies (9)
u/AzizAlhazan Dec 11 '22
I mean he did accuse Yoel Roth of being a groomer because he’s ..gay.. I guess. Gay = Pedo is definitely located to the right of climate denial on the conservative conspiracy/grift spectrum. So yea if it weren’t for Tesla stocks he would probably have been on the climate denial train by now.→ More replies (88)
u/VanillaLifestyle Dec 11 '22
He didn't even develop it. He said he would, and one of the divers basically said "that's a stupid fucking idea, it's obviously not going to be done in time, and if you know anything about caving it won't work".
So he called him a pedo, like a butthurt attention seeker.→ More replies (1)
u/crunchsmash Dec 11 '22
It's kind of funny in a dark way. The guy is half-drowned in a dark flooded cave getting bashed around into rocks by underground river currents and some douche comes along and says "Hey why don't you use a submarine?"
As if nobody on all of Earth has ever thought of that before.
Like this sorta https://i.imgur.com/dHl4My0.png
u/bibimbapblonde Dec 12 '22 •
I do medical animal research with mice and there are so many red flags here. Most organizations using public funding and doing any animal research use IACUC measures which dictate one should use the animal model of least complexity (rodent versus primate versus fish versus fruit fly) and the least amount of animals necessary to be statistically significant, while also minimizing pain. This is entirely unethical by IACUC standards, but unfortunately rules are much looser for private company where IACUC doesn't apply, although I am curious of Musks funding sources. In the research center I work at, something like this would never have been approved. No one would actually fund this had it been written in a grant. People have done similar research in rats and there are still kinks to be worked out... to do primate research for this is insane. It's a classic example of Musk hubris.He obviously doesn't know shit and also knows nothing about the actually existing biohacking movement.
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u/Traxinox Dec 11 '22 •
"more than 20 current and former employees, Reuters has concluded that the investigation coincides with rising employee dissent regarding Neuralink's animal testing, including complaints that pressure from CEO Elon Musk to accelerate development has resulted in botched experiments. Employees claim that because of the need to redo tests that initially failed, more animals have been subjected to experiments and murdered."
This is beyond fucked up holy shit
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u/Complete-Balance-814 Dec 12 '22
Records indicate that since 2018, the company has killed almost 1,500 animals, including more than 280 sheep, pigs, and monkeys. Because the company does not keep precise statistics on the number of animals tested and killed, the sources described that number as an approximate estimate.
If they aren't keeping track thats not accurate testing.
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u/stasismachine Dec 11 '22
Honestly I am not much of an animal ethics person when it comes to trying to advance society. But, holy crap that’s a pretty excessive number of animals. Like, beyond negligent I’d have to say.
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u/ekw88 Dec 11 '22
Would be good to segment them on types of animals; mice vs primates. Would also be good to see it in relation to other invasive implantable devices, like pacemakers.→ More replies (38)
u/Gavel_Naser Dec 11 '22
The article does state that 280 of the 1500 were pigs, sheep, and monkeys. Although, I didn’t see it broken down and further. I feel that the public is fairly unaware of what goes in to animal research and these numbers do not seem that alarming. If there is an actual investigation the numbers will not be the issue. Issues are more likely to arise based on how the company implemented appropriate protocols, maintained veterinary monitoring, and abided by the established guidelines for large or small animal research.→ More replies (12)
u/MinefieldinaTornado Dec 11 '22
The previous report, which alleged 3,000 monkeys, turned out to be pure photoshop.
But, it did lead to a confirmation of 8 monkeys killed.
Interestingly, the PETA offshoot that made the claims only claimed 15 monkeys were killed. It's pretty weird for one of these groups to understate the numbers by 100 times, if it is indeed 1500.→ More replies (3)
u/mdgraller Dec 11 '22 •
How is this possible?