r/mildlyinteresting Nov 29 '22 Silver 1 Helpful 1

Gas station with leaded racing fuel.

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62.6k Upvotes

6.8k

u/dsm_mike Nov 29 '22

A Circle K near me used to carry 100 octane unleaded race fuel. Last time I checked, it was around $7.80/gal. They just got rid of it and replaced it with 89 ethanol free.

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u/stephenkostos Nov 29 '22

This was also a Circle K in Streator, IL

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u/Jrandres99 Nov 29 '22

Never thought I’d see Streator mentioned on Reddit. Just passed through there Sunday. I’m actually surprised they still have race fuel. Gas stations in Dekalb Co where I grew up usually switched the race fuel out for kerosene in October for the winter months.

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u/ExtraordinaryCows Nov 29 '22

Guess it makes sense, there's quite a few short tracks not too far from it.

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u/PandaEatPizza Nov 29 '22

To your comment, I never thought I’d see DeKalb on here. Shoutout Ollie’s custard and Pizza villa

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u/DirtyDan2019 Nov 30 '22

DeKalb, home of the famously loud Raising Canes mens bathroom door?

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u/MEXEA16 Nov 29 '22

I’m all about that Fatty’s potato salad.

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u/jbm_the_dream Nov 29 '22

Came here to ask if it was Northern Il. I know some gas stations by Sycamore Speedway carry high octane fuel as well.

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u/shorbz_ Nov 29 '22

i lived there in 2012~ is it still... streator?

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/passengerpigeon20 Nov 29 '22

Are these bikes tuned for competition use or did they need 100 out of the factory? It reminds me of how the new Indian Motorcycles have the absolute audacity to demand ethanol-free 93 octane despite barely making any more horsepower than the Harley engine, which will basically run on pigswill.

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u/Keylow_1000 Nov 29 '22

Ethanol degrades your rubber fuel lines over time and will eventually cause a bunch of carb or injector issues. I think that may be some of the driving factor behind it.

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u/spurcap29 Nov 30 '22

I get it on old vehicles built when ethonol in gas wasnt a thing but in a newly built bike/car why not just use whatever compound 99.9 percent of car fuel lines are made of now that seems to handle ethenol just fine....

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u/tpx187 Nov 29 '22

100 octane smells really fuckin good. Filling and running. Very distinct and you can smell it from a good distance.

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u/YawnCimbrec Nov 29 '22

Unleaded tastes a little tangy. Supreme is kinda sour, and diesel tastes pretty good.

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u/cp5184 Nov 29 '22

Apparently the IQ scores of kids near race tracks that stop using leaded gas rise... Kids living near racetracks that use leaded gas become mentally stunted because of the use of leaded gas.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/sustainability/3716345-how-nascars-switch-to-unleaded-gas-boosted-test-scores-near-racetracks/

So... there's that...

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u/HuckleSmothered Nov 29 '22

Airports too. Piston planes still use 100 Leaded. (It says “Low Lead” but that’s only in comparison to old avgas. It’s about the same amount as leaded car gasoline)

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u/TheLoneRhaegar Nov 29 '22

Gotta love the "Good Old Days" when the gas was full of lead and the brakes were made of asbestos

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u/spurcap29 Nov 29 '22

My grandpa worked on ships in the navy. They loved when they were working with asbestos, because (so im told) unlike when working around wood sawdust they were allowed to smoke while they worked because they werent exposed the the fire hazard of wood sawdust.

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u/doublecupandcodiene Nov 30 '22

They were being smart breathing through a filter 🤣

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u/lovesducks Nov 29 '22

And a doctors visit started off with a cigarette and a glass of whiskey.

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u/BarryTGash Nov 29 '22

That's the bare minimum I ask for before getting my prostrate checked.

122

u/Forsaken-Peace4043 Nov 29 '22

You’re supposed to have the cigarettes together…afterwards

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u/LizardMorty Nov 29 '22

Somebody gets two fingers.

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u/1stMammaltowearpants Nov 29 '22 Wholesome hehehehe

Old-timey doctor stumbles into the room, drunk as hell, like "yeah u got ghosts in your blood, you should do cocaine about it"

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u/not_banned_yet94 Nov 29 '22

That sounds phenomenal to be honest.

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u/MrLahey_RANDY Nov 29 '22

Can I have 2 whiskeys in lieu of a dart?

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u/indianapail32 Nov 29 '22

Fun fact: organic brake compounds still contain a bit of asbestos even today.

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u/MrLahey_RANDY Nov 29 '22

Friable asbestos is the problem, tons of shit still uses asbestos.

Source: asbestos awareness training

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u/indianapail32 Nov 29 '22

Hell yea

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u/DiaDeLosMuertos Nov 29 '22

Let's fry us up some asbestos, boys!

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u/Lv_InSaNe_vL Nov 29 '22

Good news, the FAA has approved non-leaded aviation fuel that works as a drop in replacement for any piston engine.

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u/shicken684 Nov 29 '22

But it's much more expensive and not required so usage is tiny.

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u/ptolemy18 Nov 29 '22

Fun fact: The guy who pioneered adding lead to gasoline also invented Freon. He contracted polio, ended up paralyzed, and then accidentally strangled himself on the pulley system he invented to help him get in and out of bed.

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u/Electronic_Ad5481 Nov 29 '22

It’s worse than that.

While he was doing tours to prove to everyone that his leader gasoline was safe (by he himself breathing the fumes), he was traveling to Florida to get treatment for lead poisoning.

2.0k

u/Quattron Nov 29 '22

Didn't this guy drop overall world IQ?

I remember watching a veritasum video about it, the type of lead he used damages the neuron ends and makes people dumb basically.

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u/Electronic_Ad5481 Nov 29 '22

Yup. He has also been called a one man environmental disaster and the single most damaging organism to the planet since it was formed.

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u/lkodl Nov 29 '22

Alright. So even if I accomplish nothing with my life, I'll have been better off than this guy.

783

u/Electronic_Ad5481 Nov 29 '22

Of all the people in the 20th century that did the most damage (Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot etc) this guy is at LEAST a top ten. If not top 3. As bad as those four were, they didn’t invent and implement anything with the capacity to destroy the entire planet forever. Midgley did.

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u/CarmenxXxWaldo Nov 29 '22

Thank God Dayton ohio has the Wright Brothers and the cash register guy. Otherwise when people say "what's dayton known for?" they don't have to worry about someone bringing him up.

Also, Dayton being ground zero for leaded gasoline explains quite a bit.

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u/VivaBlasphemia Nov 30 '22

You guys get credit for the Wright Brothers? Outer Banks, NC native here, grew up maybe a quarter mile away from the Wright Brothers Memorial. We always just kinda heard "oh yeah they lived in Ohio but then they came here TO FLY AND SHIT HELL YEAAAAAH" and never really touched on their life in Ohio; I'm curious, could ya throw me some details?

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u/youknowwhatimsayiiin Nov 30 '22

Yeah somehow we’re considered “the Birthplace of Aviation” even says it on our license plates, but they never flew here lol

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u/butters091 Nov 30 '22 edited Nov 30 '22

And the guy who initially discovered the extent of that environmental contamination due to lead, Clair Patterson, is perhaps one of the most underrated scientists of the 20th century

He’s also a personal hero of mine and the subject of a fantastic episode of RadioLab that I can’t recommend highly enough

https://open.spotify.com/episode/3w99GvcUaGaP3a2ynwzMus?si=u9-lhT82QGalYNf8Ll20-A

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u/FlyWhiteGuyActual Nov 29 '22

rofl holy christ imagine having that label.

god's gonna be so pissed lmao

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u/Level9TraumaCenter Nov 29 '22

There's a fascinating analytical instrument known as a secondary ion mass spectrometer, and it has been used in the past to look at rocks found in highway roadcuts. I forget whether it's a function of lead being directly deposited or if there's some biological mechanism from lichens or other growth, but it's possible to use SIMS to show the "lead era" in the cross-section of rocks sampled from these areas, as in "this is the band with more lead, caused by automotive exhaust."

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u/hooDio Nov 30 '22

during the times leaded gas was used, average iq dropped by i think 15 points and led to a significant increase in teenage crime rates

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u/holisticbelle Nov 30 '22

Yes bc lead poisoning leads to aggression, violence, and a severe case of the dumb.

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u/Saemika Nov 30 '22

Ma! I got the dumb!

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u/DogmanDOTjpg Nov 30 '22

Worse than that. He altered the course of history, he ruined the capacity for an entire generation of Americans to properly feel empathy and we are still facing the fallout of it

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u/PDXBlueDogWizard Nov 29 '22

Look at the timing of the leaded fuel use, then look at what generation/s would have been most directly constantly heavily poisoned by it. Then, look at the actions of those generations.

Things starting to make sense?

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u/KimonoDragon814 Nov 29 '22

GIVE ME MY WHOPPER YOU LIB CUCK FUCKING OBAMAAAAAA took my MEAT!

DEEP STATE ALIEN ANGELS!

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u/PDXBlueDogWizard Nov 29 '22

And what's really wild is to think about the bleeding edge futurepoisons we've already been sucking down for the past 30 years and we'll only find out about in another 30, or never at all, because we're all Reavers/Splicers/dead about it by then.

Shit's gonna be cray!

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u/BecomeMaguka Nov 29 '22

Elevated cancer rates, reproduction rate decline, neural decay. We should probably be getting our blood actively filtered monthly to take out some of the microplastics in it.

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u/SamSibbens Nov 30 '22

I forgot the exact reason why but apparently donating blood increases your lifespan by getting rid of some toxins and forcing the body to produce brand new blood

I don't have the source, I read it on reddit, could be false.

But point being: you may be more right than you think

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u/SnideJaden Nov 30 '22

Leeches: "meats back on the menu boys."

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u/mrfluffles300 Nov 29 '22

"and that's why grandpa buys into qanon theories, kids"

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u/Ganzi Nov 30 '22

"Also, all those serial killers!"

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u/Splice1138 Nov 29 '22

He inhaled the fumes and poured it on his hands. And not just leaded gasoline, the tetraethyllead itself (i.e. the lead part)

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u/Funkit Nov 30 '22

Organic lead and mercury compounds are super fucking toxic. He’s even more stupid then I first thought. I was thinking he was using either elemental lead or the gas itself which is still bad. But the organic compound??

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u/Splice1138 Nov 30 '22

From Wikipedia:

On October 30, 1924, Midgley participated in a press conference to demonstrate the apparent safety of TEL, in which he poured TEL over his hands, placed a bottle of the chemical under his nose, and inhaled its vapor for 60 seconds, declaring that he could do this every day without succumbing to any problems.

And from the article they cite:

The day’s true highlight, however, would be Midgley’s presentation. The celebrated engineer and Ethyl VP, who had only recently been forced to leave work to recover from lead poisoning, proposed to demonstrate that TEL was not dangerous in small quantities, by rubbing some of it on his hands. Midgley was fond of this exhibition and would repeat it elsewhere, washing his hands thoroughly in the fluid and drying them on his handkerchief. “‘I’m not taking any chance whatever,’ he said. ‘Nor would I take any chance doing that every day.'” The New York World cited unbelievable dispatches from Detroit claiming that Midgley “frequently bathed” in TEL to prove its safety to skeptics within the industry.

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u/AirierWitch1066 Nov 30 '22

Wow. Dude got treated for lead poisoning and then kept poisoning himself with lead. What an absolute idiot.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '22

No the worse part is that leaded gas can be traced to low IQ, high crime and impotence throughout the 70s 80s and 90s

an entire generation stunted by his invention

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u/Jackal_6 Nov 29 '22

His least harmful invention killed him

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u/HuckleSmothered Nov 29 '22

I’d argue with a user base of 1, and a fatality rate of 1. It was his most deadly invention.

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u/deadmantheory Nov 30 '22

Least environmentally* harmful invention.

As the other person said, it had a 100% fatality rate.

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u/Learning2Programing Nov 29 '22

To be fair we have known how bad lead is since the romans and we still used it because it solved problems and was cheap.

That guy is claimed sometimes to be a person we would have been better of never haven been born but humans seem to have always abused lead.

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u/AllBadAnswers Nov 30 '22

The lead pipes Rome used are still factored into its decline and fall.

People love to get defensive when it's brought up, but long term symptoms of lead poisoning are stunted development, decline in cognitive abilities, quickness to agression-

Next time you wonder why boomers are so quick to yell at a cashier making minimum wage because they are incapable of rationalizing a change in store policy- remember that their entire generation was breathing, drinking, and painting their walls with the stuff. The removal of lead for gasoline literally resulted in a drop in crime statistics as our species stopped inhaling stupid gas in every major city.

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u/charlesfire Nov 29 '22

By the way, the guy knew that leaded gas was dangerous.

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u/HuckleSmothered Nov 29 '22

Not only knew, experienced the acute lead poisoning himself. Then kept selling it.

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u/PhatBoy1 Nov 29 '22

How many idiots try running that in their daily driver.

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u/nemo1080 Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

Probably fuck up their oxygen sensors catalytic converters

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u/thetomahawk42 Nov 29 '22

It's a catalyst poison for the catalytic converters -- a relatively small amount of leaded fuel will render them useless, permanently.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalyst_poisoning

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter#Damage

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u/deepaksn Nov 29 '22

It also kills O2 sensors.

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u/Wants-NotNeeds Nov 29 '22

...and brain cells!

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u/NDGuy47 Nov 29 '22

I'm definitely not drinking that. Again

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u/alternate_ending Nov 29 '22 Wholesome All-Seeing Upvote

My sister's eating paint chips again, maybe that's why she's insane

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u/kerbidiah15 Nov 29 '22 Take My Energy

What is the human brain but a very complicated, sentient, thinking, oxygen sensor that is killed by lead???

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u/that-shit-will-buff Nov 29 '22

And increases crime. Kids' exposure to lead in topsoil, paint, and drinking water leads to large increases in antisocial and criminal behavior in the future; these behavioral effects are costly to those individuals and to their communities. Lead remediation is therefore a highly cost-effective crime-reduction strategy. Edit forgot a word

https://www.niskanencenter.org/research-roundup-lead-exposure-causes-crime/#:~:text=Kids'%20exposure%20to%20lead%20in,%2Deffective%20crime%2Dreduction%20strategy.

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u/ChChChillian Nov 29 '22

It's kind of scary to realize that literally everyone born before the 1990s or so is probably just a little bit stupider than they'd be otherwise because leaded gasoline pumped so much lead into the environment.

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u/GrassNova Nov 29 '22

There's probably stuff out there right now that we don't know about yet that's making us dumber

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u/ImpulseCombustion Nov 29 '22

I have to replace the o2 sensor after every session when working with leaded fuel. They’re one and done.

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u/douglasdtlltd1995 Nov 29 '22

Why use one then? Do you have to use one?

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u/whynotlikemike Nov 29 '22

catalytic converters

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u/gmotelet Nov 29 '22 Helpful Wholesome

Can't fuck it up if it's already been stolen

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u/whynotlikemike Nov 29 '22

sad but unfortunately the reality for many

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u/NutterTV Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

I own a fence company. I recently got called to a local bakery that has their own truck fleet. Every. Single. One. Was cut and stolen from the trucks. There was probably 15 trucks. I felt so bad for the guy, he couldn’t even afford to get the fence which I imagine was probably a fraction of the cost of 15 catalytic converters.

Edit: Guys… fence, as in the thing that keeps people out of your yards. Like wood and chain link and what not. Not a chop shop or someone who sells stolen items. Stop asking me about it Lmao

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u/LesserKnownHero Nov 29 '22

We tried to rent a van from Home Depot. Over a dozen vans and trucks parked in the fenced lot. Nothing available.

They have the most units of the city, and are down to 2 pickups and 1 van, because the others are missing CCs.

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u/DangerNoodle805 Nov 29 '22

This is why we have insurance so that when this happens, they can tell us "No, go fuck yourselves ".

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u/NutterTV Nov 29 '22

“Sorry you didn’t have the jigsaw coverage, if they used a sawsall to cut this out we’d be able to cover it, but since it looks like a jigsaw was used, no coverage. And we’re dropping you as a client. 🖕🏼”

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u/herecomestheD Nov 29 '22

"Thanks for all that free money though shithead!"

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u/Jtbdn Nov 29 '22

Is this a commentary on the blatant scam and grift of insurance plans... or a microcosm of our reality that fucks us daily?

You decide.

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u/MeowLikeaDog Nov 29 '22

You didn't have a fence so claim is denied.

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u/V65Pilot Nov 29 '22

You didn't remove your converter when you parked. Claim denied.

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u/Provia100F Nov 29 '22

Lead will coat literally everything and just royally fuck everything up

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u/twotall88 Nov 29 '22

Just go all out and switch to methanol

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22 edited 15d ago

[deleted]

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u/twotall88 Nov 29 '22

lol probably just made it lean.

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u/Zediac Nov 29 '22

You can use methanol injection to help street cars. Although you only use a little bit of methanol and only spray it under high boost.

My high power modified car uses a 50/50 methanol/water injection system to prevent pre-detonation during boost.

AEM video on methanol injection

Nowadays you can build a car to run on E85 for the same affect but my car was built before E85 became a thing and it's not a cheap process to make the switch.

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u/meowtiger Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 30 '22

it's not a cheap process to make the switch.

you might be surprised. anything running computer-controlled EFI with enough overhead on the injectors can probably make the switch with negligible hassle (e: assuming you replace all rubber fuel system components you might have)

if your car has a carb, though, stay the f away from ethanol

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u/Juicechemist81 Nov 29 '22

There are ethanol kits for carbs. A carb is the easiest way to run a E85 tune. It's simply bigger jets. You could swap to ethanol for less than a $100. Now you may need a fuel pump and bigger fuel lines but that's a story for another day.

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u/DingleMcCringleTurd Nov 29 '22

Idiots. Everyone knows it's meant for lawnmowers

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u/NotAnAntIPromise Nov 29 '22

Wtf I'm missing out on lawnmower races too now?

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u/-FuckYouShoresy- Nov 29 '22

Bruh, lawnmower demolition derbies

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u/Player8 Nov 29 '22

Absolutely you are

https://youtu.be/brgep8R73u8

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

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u/gregra193 Nov 29 '22

Probably $10-12/gallon.

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u/Fozzymandius Nov 29 '22

You can find 100LL at any airport (big or small) and it generally runs a buck or two over premium prices. Just under $7 right now at my local FBO.

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u/LurkerOrHydralisk Nov 29 '22

Actually not as bad as expected. 87 octane has dropped to like 3.30 near me, but 93 is still hovering just under 5. Used to be a 10% difference between the two, not 50%

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u/sekazi Nov 29 '22

It really used to be about a 10 cent difference between each.

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u/fonzie141 Nov 29 '22

Is that fuel also leaded?

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u/Ernst_ Nov 29 '22

Yes, the LL in 100LL stands for "low lead"

Although compared to leaded automotive fuel of the 60s-70s, 100LL contains way more ppm of lead.

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u/Fozzymandius Nov 29 '22

Yes. General aviation still uses leaded fuel because the FAA requires lead and doesn't change things quickly or easily.

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u/McFeely_Smackup Nov 29 '22

"110 octane! My car is gonna go so fast!!"

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22 edited Dec 31 '22

[deleted]

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u/Nllbllnlnlnl Nov 29 '22

My bmw 335 can run full E85 or 110 race fuel simply by upgrading the pump and an generic remap through my phone.

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u/spekt50 Nov 29 '22

I imagine it's cost prohibitive enough to keep people from putting it in their '93 Ford Taurus.

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u/Ekesa1999 Nov 29 '22

Can someone explain what would leaded fuel be good for? google says it helps the engine with something but... I didnt understand exactly. Thanks!

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u/Paul_The_Builder Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

Its a cheap way to increase the octane of the fuel. Its much more complicated than that, but that's the simple version.

Edit: Lead is toxic and bad for humans. Leaded fuel has been banned from road-going vehicles for quite some time, but it is still used in some racing and aviation applications.

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u/kingawsume Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22 Silver Gold Platinum Helpful Wholesome All-Seeing Upvote Take My Energy Starry Got the W Take My Power Mind Blown Awesome Answer

The more complicated version is that it includes tetraethyl-lead; a toxic, neuro-degenerative compund that increases fuel octane.

Internal combustion engines, under ideal circumstances, should burn their air/fuel charge at (nearly) the same time, every time. Provided you haven't screwed with your ECU/carb tuning, and you put manufacturer suggested minimum octane fuel in, just take care of it regularly and it (should) be fine. Higher perfomance motors have different requirements.

At higher (>10~11:1)(EDIT1) compression ratios, with higher air/fuel charges, such as in a racing/drag car, you run the risk of the fuel spontaneusly exploding before being ignited by the spark plug. (Pre-detonation, more commonly, knocking.) This results in reduced performance, and will damage or destroy engines in no time.(EDIT2)

Higher octane ratings allow higher compression ratio engines to be run more safely, which means you can squeeze those extra few ponies out of there, so long as the rest of the engine can take it. The downside is that the exhaust now contains aerosolized lead particles, which can (under regular exposure) enter the brain and cause reduced cognitive function. After switching to unleaded gas, 2 towns near a NASCAR season track saw year-on-year test score improvements.

(EDIT1): I understand that 11:1 is not as high as a ratio as it used to be; however, most American (as in cars sold in America) NON-PERFORMANCE cars are fall somewhere between those numbers, and are targeting 87 octane regular unleaded fuel, thus I used these numbers.

(EDIT2): There are also valve lubrication benefits, but since most engines use seats for the valves now, even in racing engines, this is not as large a factor as it used to be.

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u/Neraxis Nov 29 '22

Just a small clarification - 10-11 isn't as high a compression ratio anymore - tech's come a LONG way. Lexus' 2gr FKS makes an 11.8 compression ratio and is designed to run on 87 octane. For a 3.5l v6 making nearly ~295 HP - that's extremely good for low octane gas. Likewise, modern engines are extremely good at adjusting for knock. Engines won't blow themselves up on knock anymore for the vast majority of OEM vehicles.

Also to less car savvy folk - JUST USE THE OCTANE YOUR OWNERS MANUAL TELLS YOU TO USE. Putting in HIGHER (unleaded) octane won't hurt the car - putting in LOWER than the stated octane WILL hurt the car.

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u/ErikTheAngry Nov 29 '22

Another small clarification, most modern engines that are intended to run on higher octanes are mandated to have knock sensors and the ability to compensate (timing, boost levels, etc). My Subaru has also has knock prediction, which will (sometimes too aggressively) trim things back before the engine knocks.

It's terrible for fuel economy and performance, and you should never do it deliberately, but it saves the engine in the event that you've got no other options.

IIRC it was a result of people trying to flee natural disasters, and not having access to fuel that worked for their engines.

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u/dieseltech82 Nov 29 '22

Idk about any of that but knock sensors have been a thing since the late 80’s I believe. If it isn’t mandated by law, it’s probably cheap insurance by the manufacturer to keep warranty claims down and or prevent their competition from claiming their engines blow up with pump gas. Either way, the ones in my truck don’t work as a rodent chewed on the wires (thanks rodent) and it hasn’t been an issue, which is great, outside of the engine light letting me know the sensors aren’t working correctly.

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u/revto9000 Nov 29 '22

My 2000 S2000 has a knock sensor, which broke last year. It's an absolute pain in the ass to get to, you literally can't see it, only feel it. Still replaced it, because knock is bad for expensive S2000 engines

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u/fraGgulty Nov 29 '22

Well yeah if your username is any indication, I'm sure you're putting the knock sensor to good use

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u/goingftl Nov 29 '22

For reference the ND2 Miata has a compression ratio of 13:1. You are right 11 is not high anymore now a days.

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u/adventure_in_gnarnia Nov 29 '22

Mazdas sky-activ engines can switch to compression ignition at higher rpm’s. Direct injection adds fuel timing, so petrol engines can basically run as a diesel under load, increasing efficiency and fuel economy.

Leaded fuel, even for Motorsport, belongs in the past. If Formula 1 cars are fueled by E10 gasoline, it’ll be fine in yours… the problem is your tuning. E85 is cheap high octane fuel if you want to go that route, and it doesn’t make everyone dumber.

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u/32BitWhore Nov 29 '22

Leaded fuel, even for Motorsport, belongs in the past.

Hard agree. The advent of modern ethanol and methanol-based fuels and fuel systems capable of handling them has made leaded gasoline completely obsolete. If you're still using it, you're doing it wrong.

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u/fishsticklovematters Nov 29 '22 Silver Helpful

People like you make me want to buy meaningless Reddit coins to gift out.

Instead, name a charity for me to donate to and I'll DM you a screenshot of it.

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u/I_am_an_adult_now Nov 29 '22 Wholesome

Maybe a lead research charity lmao

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u/lolboonesfarm Nov 29 '22

Well yeah, you wouldn’t want one that was behind.

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u/pyrodice Nov 29 '22

"Unleaded? Just say behinded!"

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u/fradzio Nov 29 '22 Silver Take My Energy Heartwarming

I wish more people took your approach instead of buying Reddit coins

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u/AnvilOfMisanthropy Nov 29 '22 Silver

I'd super like to see Reddit support this kind of thing. Award u/GoodRedditor a thingy and a bit of it goes to what their profile says.

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u/kingawsume Nov 29 '22

Come Back Alive.

I want to see Ukraine win. Help them get what they need.

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u/fishsticklovematters Nov 29 '22

Was already doing SunflowerRelief.org and helping a Ukrainian neighbor w/ family still there...but I'm on it. DM coming.

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u/buildyourown Nov 29 '22

Just to piggyback... Lead is also a lubricant. It's why aviation gas is still leaded. The engines were certified with leaded gas so that's what they need to continue to run. Ethanol is also a great octane booster. As much as we hate on it for gas stability and it's negative effects on engines, it's cheap and safe compared to the alternatives.

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u/chills42 Nov 29 '22

Aviation also has much more significant issues with vapor pressure differences at altitude, adding to the issues with other modern fuels

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u/ExplosiveDisassembly Nov 29 '22 Starry Today I Learned

Engine temps are quite hot. If your fuel ignites before the engine is ready for it, bad things can happen. Very very bad things.

Leaded fuel (And higher octane fuel) ignites at a higher temperature than lower octane/non leaded fuel. So it resists the heat of the engine more, only igniting when the spark plug sparks.

So, with leaded fuel your engine can run very very very hot without premature ignition, potentially making your engine spontaneously become a hunk of metal. Which is why it's used in airplanes. Very hot, high revving engines where failure simply is not an option.

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u/Ekesa1999 Nov 29 '22

Oh I got it now! thanks a lot!

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u/ExplosiveDisassembly Nov 29 '22

No worries, people like to think they know the answer to this...but often don't.

Also: Never believe people that say the octane level is the "power/energy" in the fuel. It's pretty much just ignition temp of the fuel.

High octane in a low compression (low temp) engine leaves fuel unburnt. Low Octane in a high compression (high temp) engine leads to premature ignition, IE: 'Knock'. Very bad.

Just do what your manual says.

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u/EMCoupling Nov 29 '22 Eureka!

It's incredible that you've managed to explain the core idea of octane ratings in just 2 sentences. All my life I've been hearing these vague long winded answers about what it actually means.

Thanks.

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u/binarycow Nov 29 '22

All my life I've been hearing these vague long winded answers about what it actually means.

That's because all your life, you've been talking to people who fall into one of two camps:

  • A knowledgeable person who doesn't know how to teach
  • Someone who doesn't have the understanding themselves, so they cannot properly explain.

Like 95% of the time (if not more), it's the 2nd category.

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u/ok_computer Nov 29 '22

To note the increase in temp is both from combustion and cylinder compression. High octane is used in higher compression ratio internal combustion engines where the normal 85 (87?) would prematurely combust before ignition stage on a four stroke cylinder. Octane is a misnomer where a blend component name score is used to designate compression ratio performance. Diesel combusts on compression alone but needs urea spray in the flue gas to knock out the NOx and SOx from running the fuel air mixture in excess of air and with the presence of sulfur in heavy crude cuts.

Methyl tert butyl ether (MTBE) or ethanol are also anti-knock agents. Corn ethanol is mostly blended in the US because of perverse federal incentives for renewable fuel as a agricultural subsidy. But ethanol is better than both (methyl?)-ethyl lead or MTBE environmentally but causes soot on fuel injectors.

Aviation grade fuel is finally coming around for FAA certification on a lead-free-substitute with anti-knocking reliability but who knows how long that will take to replace the market without a strict ban.

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u/ResIpsaBroquitur Nov 29 '22

Which is why it's used in airplanes. Very hot, high revving engines where failure simply is not an option.

Airplane engines are relatively very low-revving and cool compared to car engines. I think the Cessnas I flew redlined at 2700rpm and usually stayed below 200 degrees (oil temp) while in flight. My track car redlines at 8000rpm and it sees oil temps of 260 or so.

Prop planes use leaded fuel in large part due to inertia -- as you said, failure isn't an option when you're thousands of feet in the air, so there's a strong bias towards making changes small and incremental If you buy a brand-new Cessna 172 today, it'll have an engine designed in the 50s that doesn't take advantage of a lot of the tricks that modern car engines do to lower the octane requirement.

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u/Malumeze86 Nov 29 '22

It increases the compression that the fuel can withstand before combustion which gives the engine more power.

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u/Mounta1nK1ng Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

It allows the engine to be tuned to make more power. Either by using high-compression pistons, or a turbo or supercharger. Higher octane gas won't do anything to increase power if the engine doesn't need it, like almost all regular car engines that aren't turbo/supercharger or high performance.

You probably get that, but just putting it out there for people who think using premium fuel will give their car more power. It doesn't. On the flip side, a car designed for high-octane fuel shouldn't be used without it, as performance can suffer and premature detonation can damage the engine.

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u/Upstairs-Wheel-8995 Nov 29 '22

Lead is also a lubricant

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u/BaconIsAVeg2 Nov 29 '22 Silver

Is that why my ex-girlfriend said I had a pencil dick?

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u/BurnerForJustTwice Nov 29 '22

No. She said that because it had bite marks all over that Ticonderoga. Rawr.

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u/Mn2511 Nov 29 '22

Leaded racing fuel has a very distinct metallic smell, also piston driven small aircraft use leaded fuel, keep that in mind if you go to a race track or a very busy local airfield.

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u/SrslyCmmon Nov 29 '22

Nih study on lead levels in children. Long story short: don't live near small local airports.

Results: Our results suggest that children living within 500 m of an airport at which planes use leaded avgas have higher blood lead levels than other children. This apparent effect of avgas on blood lead levels was evident also among children living within 1,000 m of airports. The estimated effect on blood lead levels exhibited a monotonically decreasing dose–response pattern, with the largest impact on children living within 500 m.

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u/Ellemeno Nov 29 '22

I used to live pretty close to a local airport and I just checked that the distance from my old house to the end of the airport's runway is 1,000m. No wonder I'm a dumbass.

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u/innocuousremark Nov 30 '22

At least you have an excuse

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u/Old_Car_2702 Nov 29 '22

I always thought leaded fuel was banned in the 70’s.

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u/classic_aut0 Nov 29 '22

They use leaded fuel in small aircraft pretty much exclusively.

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u/acvdk Nov 29 '22

Yes an people who live near general aviation airports have higher lead exposure as a result.

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u/CaptRackham Nov 29 '22

Considering I spent 2 years living on an airport not just near it I’ve probably lost a good number of brain cells to lead and Jet A exposure. Oh well

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u/Stoyfan Nov 29 '22

Jet A is unleaded. So you may still have some brain cells knocking around.

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u/drunkerbrawler Nov 29 '22

Aren't there additives in jet A that are bad for the liver or is that only military blends like jp8?

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u/BannedStanned Nov 29 '22

Aren't there additives in jet A that are bad for the liver

Kerosene is generally hard on the liver no matter how it is consumed. Jet A is basically kerosene, not gasoline.

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u/Forrest024 Nov 29 '22

Jet, diesel and kerosene are all kind of similar.

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u/VecGS Nov 29 '22

Add in rocket fuel (RP1) as well. Just a higher grade of kerosine for the most part.

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u/ghunt81 Nov 29 '22

As it was explained to me, kerosene is basically "dry" diesel, i.e. doesn't contain the paraffin and other lubricants present in diesel fuel. A diesel engine will run on kerosene but it will kill your injector pump.

Jet fuel is pretty much just kerosene with an anti-static additive.

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u/allegoryofthedave Nov 29 '22

Does that mean we should reduce the amount of Kerosene we drink?

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u/BannedStanned Nov 29 '22

Yes. The safe daily intake is zero.

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u/allegoryofthedave Nov 29 '22

Should’ve just stuck to good ol diesel .

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u/HSR47 Nov 29 '22

You can always get your blood lead levels tested.

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u/Jusiun Nov 29 '22

The LL in 100LL(used in many small airplanes) stands for Low Lead

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u/robotzor Nov 29 '22

If I'm eating cheeseburger LP where LP is low poop, I'm still asking questions

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u/tehrmuk Nov 29 '22

...I would be interested - and scared - to find out how a low-poop cheeseburger works. Will there be unpoop cheeseburgers in the future? How can a burger not cause poop? The possibilities of food without pooping!

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u/trundlinggrundle Nov 29 '22

100LL still has a lot of TEL in it. Way more than we used for cars. The reason it's called low lead is because it used to have even more than that, which was absolutely fantastic for piston aircraft engines, but horrible for humans.

Over the years, TEL content for car gas dropped to around .1g per gallon. 100ll is currently around .5g per liter. There's a lot of lead in avgas.

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u/z00mi3z Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

Something fun to note is the 100"low lead" still has ~20x more lead than leaded auto gas from 1986

Edit: corrected year to 1986 from 1970's

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u/JazzinZerg Nov 29 '22

The average lead content in gasoline in 1973 was 2-3 grams per gallon.

Avgas 100LL may contain a maximum of 0.56 grams of tetraethyl lead per litre. A US gallon is equal to 3.785 litres. TEL is roughly 64% lead by mass, so avgas 100LL contains 0.56 * 3.785 * 0.64 = 1.39 grams per gallon, roughly half of early 70s automotive petrol.

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u/nemo1080 Nov 29 '22

It's illegal to use on the highway but it's perfectly fine in race cars on a track or airplanes

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u/Ponald-Dump Nov 29 '22

adds it to stock 1997 Honda Civic

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u/Type_Rex Nov 29 '22

VTEC just kicked in yo

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u/bl3nd0r Nov 29 '22

My cylinder head just melted yo

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u/ModingusKhan Nov 29 '22

Jesus, how much for a gallon?

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u/nemo1080 Nov 29 '22

Last I looked I think it was around $13

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u/PickledPokute Nov 29 '22

Sounds like a good number to discourage random stupids from pumping it into their SUVs.

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u/bigboilerdawg Nov 29 '22

Leaded pumps have a bigger nozzle that won't fit into unleaded gas fill necks, at least in the US. You would have to do a workaround to get it in the tank.

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u/nemo1080 Nov 29 '22

I believe it's illegal to pump it right into the fuel tank of an automobile that isn't on a trailer but if you've got a race car that's to the point of eating 110 Octane you probably have a fuel cell in the back that wouldn't slow you down.

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u/Mustang46L Nov 29 '22

In PA, we still have it quite a few places because of all of the dirt track races.

When fuel prices went up the gas station by me realized that their max price in the system was $9.999 per gallon so they couldn't charge more for race fuel than that.

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u/DontWorryAbout_ItPal Nov 29 '22

Where in PA are all these dirt track races you speak of?

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u/Explorer335 Nov 29 '22

The boss was asking me where to get racing fuel around here, so I directed him to tractor supply where they have the Sonoco and VP Racing varieties. I'm asking him what kind of vehicle he has to determine what kind of fuel he needs. Apparently he just wants to put it in a bone-stock Hayabusa to make it faster. I explain how octane works, why he doesn't need it, and why lead is bad.

Buys it anyway.

We had to change plugs on every single vehicle he put that in, both the Range Rovers now need catalytic converters, and the hayabusa motor is sitting in a plastic tub in his garage. I doubt the lifter bucket exploded because of the fuel, probably just pounding the nuts off an already beat bike without ever adjusting the valves.

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u/modsRgaayRETARDS Nov 29 '22

How do people have such expensive toys or pretend to be enthusiasts then do something like that? A Google search would have saved him thousands

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u/StretchFrenchTerry Nov 30 '22

He's the boss, he knows everything.

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u/Vollkorntoastbrot Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

Thing is that (most) modern racing fuel isn't leaded.

Even NASCAR stoped using leaded fuel in 2007, and that's a series that took till 2012 to stop using carburettors.

The last normal car to use those switched to fuel Injection in 1995. (According to Google)

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u/m_nels Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

Some weird posts in here.

  1. Just because the section of the pump is originally slotted for diesel does not mean that’s what’s coming out of the tank. Not a photoshop or a troll job. That side of the pump has been repurposed.

  2. Yes, you can still buy leaded gas. It’s not going to do you any good for your fuel injected V6 Camaro. Old farm tractors, airplanes & race cars still run leaded gas.

  3. If you were caught running this in an on-road engine you would be subject to fines and penalties, like if you were running dyed diesel in a pickup or semi.

Edit: Added #3

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u/khag24 Nov 29 '22

This pump is different than the one by me. There is only one gas station that will sell it, and you have to go into the attendant to fill out a book with how much you want and why. Then get a key to unlock the pump. You can only pump it into a gas canister, if you try to pump it into a car they will cut it off

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u/Galileo258 Nov 29 '22

In Florida, there are many gas stations that sell aviation gas because it’s what Airboats/fan boats run on.

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u/rich_clock Nov 29 '22

I run E85, which I think maxes at 105 octane depending on the exact ethanol content and it's only like 2.75 a gallon.

Night and day difference from 93... but I'm tuned for it.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 30 '22

[deleted]

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u/S_SubZero Nov 29 '22

Back in the 90s my buddy and I used to go to a race track where they sold racing fuel in the parking lot. We always had a good laugh, I mean come on, what MORON is going to pay $4 for a gallon of gasoline?! HAHAHAHA!!

…. Sigh.

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u/pattyG80 Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

This looks like a sticker they just put over the diesel pump

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